Good Leather Supplier?

[Ellen]

I'm looking for a better vegtan leather supplier, how good is yours?

Looking for:

Mail order, not UPS shipping, uncommon thickness, consistent leather properties: clean surface and the back (for smooth not tooled things), takes dyes and finishes the same way (not varies drastically hide from hide, and black dye colors it in black, not grey), not dark, bruised, pressure marks all over, and it shouldn't smell.

My last one has a properties of a blotting paper, even premium quality, supposedly from the same supplier. Did the W&C changes the tanning process recently, or my distributor quietly sends me unasked for brand?

The previous, black drum dyed vegtan, sent directly from a reputable tannery in US, had a fish smell.

Is there any chance to get repeatedly a good quality leather by mail order?

I'm in Canada, by the way

Edited January 24, 2011 by Ellen

[reddevil76]

What thickness are you looking for?

I have ordered tooling calf and tooling goat from Tandy before. 85% blemish free. 2-3 oz.

For something thicker, I've just received my Hermann Oak. This is my first time ordering this. Frankly, I am quite disappointed. But I don't know if its due to my expectations too high?

Previously I used veg tan available locally (which is from India), and they always had several big blemishes. But you could work around it. It was only $3.50 per sq ft and I didn't need to pay shipping.

Then I splashed out about $120 to ship from US these 3 hides of Hermann Oak plus 1 Tandy's Craftsman Oak as I thought it wiser to spend more and get more yield.

Now, I won't even talk about the Craftsman Oak (shudder). But these Hermann Oak hides had these small blemishes spread out here and there, and I could hardly cut a piece without a blemish no matter how I tried to place my patterns. It seems as if the cow just recovered from chicken pox prior to being slaughtered. I would think this is even more inconvenient than a few large blemishes which you could work around.

I might want to try the Royal Meadow next time. But let's see if anyone have a better recommendation.

[George B]

I have used Hermann Oak and W&C, both seem to have developed some problems. The school I went to also said they were looking for a new leather supplier, waste and quality being the biggest problems for HO and W&C. I just recieved an order for a new saddle from Seigel of Calif. Looks good, like older Hermann Oak and huge sides. They offer free shipping in the US but I'm sure about Canada, you would have to contact them. Their leather is tanned by W&C using a different veg. tanning proccess. $169 a side for heavy skirting leather which included free shipping via UPS. The chaps/seat leather was great for the sale price.

[Spinner]

Interestingly enough I recently made 2 orders from W&C, one of their 'special' (#3 grade) and one of their utility (#2) grade. Last time I ordered the special was gorgeous compared to the local Tandy offerings so I went with what I know and added the #2 side hoping it would be even nicer.

Turns out the #3 was better than the #2 by a long shot. The orders were a month apart, the #3 being first & from their overstock so something may have changed. I'll give them one more try when I need a hide again in a few weeks and if the same thing happens I'll be looking too.

[reddevil76]

George, have you seen the top grade Hermann Oak? How was it like?

Mine is the B grade. I don't really like it. To be fair, if you do stamping, those small spots disappear under a basketweave. But I like to do plain items, and the thing is, I also like my current supplier very much and would like to stay with them. But their main line seems to be the HO.

So unless the top grade HO is much better, I may have to look elsewhere which I am quite reluctant.

[George B]

Hey Reddevil, A year ago at school we used the best grade Hermann Oak it cut like iron but otherwise worked out great. after school, bought a couple of sides and the waste around the neck was real bad. I measured at almost 1/2" thick and could not beused, about 7 square feet.

Before ordering my Seigel I talked with my teacher, he had the same problem with hermann Oak, he tried W&C but had the same problems I did, Real fast drop off in thickness, hollow spots, soft spots and some that was fine until you stamped it and it turned fuzzy. After recieving my sides from Seigel I contacted him and he was ordering some himself to try. The flesh side is firm with very little fuzzy matting, texture is good and firm and the thickness seems to be more uniform. The finished side has marks from shipping, just some shiny spots and such but not much in the way of holes or bad spots. It is the same color as the HO I have been using, they cal if a California tan.

I'll have to let all know how it cuts and tools.

[reddevil76]

Alrighty, be waiting for your updates..

[Ellen]

Thank you all, may be somebody else chime in.

The leather thickness I'm using is 6-7 oz, not more common 5-6, or 7-8 oz.

I tried Siegel too, and still have what they sent me, can't use it. For heavy tooling and flat pieces it may be usable, but not for wet formed clean work.

Every single time (few at all, these are costly mistakes) online ordering results unsatisfactory leather.

The only alternative, one of distributors, sends what supposed to be W&C, but some of it was either too thin, or with too many defects, or part of the side was carton-like leather with separating layers. What was good, the moldability and eveness of dye, perfect.

But the last, best quality, perfect looking leather behaves like blotting paper, dyeing and finish are very uneven. Dyeing by black F's Pro-Oil dye results greyish color, to get black color have to use much more dye and dye twice. Same with other colors. Without reliable supply I can do nothing. And losing two hundred dollars now and then, on no good leather, is heavy on a wallet.

Tandy's leather wet forms not that good. Again, for Western floral carving and tooling in Al Stohlman style, it may be just what they need.

Edited January 25, 2011 by Ellen

[reddevil76]

But the last, best quality, perfect looking leather behaves like blotting paper, dyeing and finish are very uneven. Dyeing by black F's Pro-Oil dye results greyish color, to get black color have to use much more dye and dye twice. Same with other colors. Without reliable supply I can do nothing. And losing two hundred dollars now and then, on no good leather, is heavy on a wallet.

Hi Ellen, this "blotting" paper leather you mentioned, what brand is it? I might want to consider it as I rarely dye and apply finishes. But I do want blemish free leather and that sounds like what I am looking for.

[Art]

Hi Ellen,

Sounds like you have very particular requirements for your leather. Wickett and Craig can probably meet your needs as they have quite a finishing facility at their tannery in Pennsylvania. Don't go looking for sale prices when you have higher standards as the premium hides are never on sale. I have seen backs that they produce for Louis Vitton that would, I hope, meet your expectations. You really need to tell them what you need and not flinch at the price. Get in contact with Matt Bressler at W&C and see what they can do for you. 1-800-Tannery.

Art

Thank you all, may be somebody else chime in.

The leather thickness I'm using is 6-7 oz, not more common 5-6, or 7-8 oz.

I tried Siegel too, and still have what they sent me, can't use it. For heavy tooling and flat pieces it may be usable, but not for wet formed clean work.

Every single time (few at all, these are costly mistakes) online ordering results unsatisfactory leather.

The only alternative, one of distributors, sends what supposed to be W&C, but some of it was either too thin, or with too many defects, or part of the side was carton-like leather with separating layers. What was good, the moldability and eveness of dye, perfect.

But the last, best quality, perfect looking leather behaves like blotting paper, dyeing and finish are very uneven. Dyeing by black F's Pro-Oil dye results greyish color, to get black color have to use much more dye and dye twice. Same with other colors. Without reliable supply I can do nothing. And losing two hundred dollars now and then, on no good leather, is heavy on a wallet.

Tandy's leather wet forms not that good. Again, for Western floral carving and tooling in Al Stohlman style, it may be just what they need.

[Spinner]

Checked my receipts last night as I was curious after this discussion. As suspected, Art is correct about the sale stuff.

The piece of W&C that I was really happy with was not on sale and I had it split from thicker stock which gave me a very even & consistent thickness. The second piece I bought that was so-so was on overstock sale and already in the thickness I needed.

[Ellen]

Hi Ellen, this "blotting" paper leather you mentioned, what brand is it? I might want to consider it as I rarely dye and apply finishes. But I do want blemish free leather and that sounds like what I am looking for.

Wicket and Craig, tooling leather, best quality. The distributor really did his best this time: cleanest leather I've ever seen. Usually even on best quality leather there were uneven surface and print marks (pulling from the shelf or something like this).

This one forms and cuts beautifully, only when you touch it with wet dye or finish it was momentarily sucked down. No chance on even application, plus colors distortion. I even tried apply neatsfoot oil before dyeing, with overnight drying, it didn't help.

Art, I would like not to be picky about surface of leather, but there is no place in everyday life for tooled leather, not everybody likes it, and not everybody is ready to pay for it. But Wicket & Craig best tooling leather price is quite acceptable, special production cost is beyond my means.

I just wonder how Valery Michaels (UK, vegtan bag maker) managed to get so clean and even leather as on photos in her book.

Edited January 26, 2011 by Ellen

[reddevil76]

Checked my receipts last night as I was curious after this discussion. As suspected, Art is correct about the sale stuff.

The piece of W&C that I was really happy with was not on sale and I had it split from thicker stock which gave me a very even & consistent thickness. The second piece I bought that was so-so was on overstock sale and already in the thickness I needed.

Spinner, how was the temper of the leather? Firm enough to do overlay style card slots in a wallet?

[Spinner]

Spinner, how was the temper of the leather? Firm enough to do overlay style card slots in a wallet?

Sorry Red, I'm not sure about that. First I'm not quite savvy on wallet construction and second, the weight I'm using from them is 5-6oz.

I can say that it holds shape very well and wet forms nicely around compound curves and on the first batch I didn't have the color problems that Ellen seems to be having.

[Art]

Hi again Ellen,

You might want to try using an airbrush. It takes a little practice, but a lot of the "impeccable" finishes are often sprayed. You can cut back your dye with Denatured Alcohol and it can reduce the uneven application, you just do more applications to get the required density.

Art

Wicket and Craig, tooling leather, best quality. The distributor really did his best this time: cleanest leather I've ever seen. Usually even on best quality leather there were uneven surface and print marks (pulling from the shelf or something like this).

This one forms and cuts beautifully, only when you touch it with wet dye or finish it was momentarily sucked down. No chance on even application, plus colors distortion. I even tried apply neatsfoot oil before dyeing, with overnight drying, it didn't help.

Art, I would like not to be picky about surface of leather, but there is no place in everyday life for tooled leather, not everybody likes it, and not everybody is ready to pay for it. But Wicket & Craig best tooling leather price is quite acceptable, special production cost is beyond my means.

I just wonder how Valery Michaels (UK, vegtan bag maker) managed to get so clean and even leather as on photos in her book.

[reddevil76]

Sorry Red, I'm not sure about that. First I'm not quite savvy on wallet construction and second, the weight I'm using from them is 5-6oz.

I can say that it holds shape very well and wet forms nicely around compound curves and on the first batch I didn't have the color problems that Ellen seems to be having.

I suppose nothing beats trying at least one hide out myself

[Spinner]

I suppose nothing beats trying at least one hide out myself

Yeah, that's how I found I liked their leathers. As I mentioned above though, pic the leather you want and have it split instead of buying the specials or overstock.

I've had more consistent results with leather the split specifically for me.

[Ellen]

Thank you, Art. I'll keep in mind advice on Matt for a future, but airbrushing is not for my conditions (living room) and other sides were taking manual dyeing very well.

As I understand now, most of you are not making smooth vegtan things on regular basis for a reason. I have to learn to work with leather what comes to me, and stop trying do make the smooth and even product. Sigh.

Thank you all, I appreciate your help. I learned my lesson.

[reddevil76]

Thank you, Art. I'll keep in mind advice on Matt for a future, but airbrushing is not for my conditions (living room) and other sides were taking manual dyeing very well.

As I understand now, most of you are not making smooth vegtan things on regular basis for a reason. I have to learn to work with leather what comes to me, and stop trying do make the smooth and even product. Sigh.

Thank you all, I appreciate your help. I learned my lesson.

Ellen, I share your frustration as I am in the same situation as you in a few ways. I have space constraints (working from a small desk in bedroom), I like to make clean plain items as well, and I pay alot for shipping too. Latest shipment, US$120 in shipping cost alone for 4 sides. So any mistakes is indeed costly for me.

I too have looked at some other's commercial sites and wondered where they get such clean veg tan. But then again, we see only the finish products, but we don't get to see behind the scenes. Maybe they too "throw away" half a hide for every half they use, just to achieve such clean results?

Anyway, some time ago, I came across Rowensworld.com. These folks sell leather from Tandy, but in a different way. They sell in pieces of 1 sq ft (you decide the dimensions), and they cut that piece only from the cleanest part of the hide. For the Live Oak, it was $10 per piece. I did email them asking if they could do a discount for 50 pieces. Their offer if I am not wrong is $8 per piece.

By the sq foot, this is almost twice the price as opposed to buying the whole side. If you are one who can find projects to utilise the blemished parts, Buying the whole side still brings bigger returns.

But if you don't wish to struggle with storing big hides, or cutting pieces from one, or having the headache of dealing with the blemished parts ( I hate to throw them away, yet don't know what to do with them), then maybe this is the way to go.

[BBVA]

Hi Ellen,

Sounds like you have very particular requirements for your leather. Wickett and Craig can probably meet your needs as they have quite a finishing facility at their tannery in Pennsylvania. Don't go looking for sale prices when you have higher standards as the premium hides are never on sale. I have seen backs that they produce for Louis Vitton that would, I hope, meet your expectations. You really need to tell them what you need and not flinch at the price. Get in contact with Matt Bressler at W&C and see what they can do for you. 1-800-Tannery.

Art

Well said. Once you have the need for certain standards, you can't go bargain hunting for vegtan. I learned that like most, the hard way.

I've been using W&C, having mine custom split and resprayed and have been happy with them so far. You're going to pay, but you as the maker, and whoever buys your goods, will be happy.

Just my 2 cents.