newfiebackflip Report post Posted February 24, 2011 So I was browsing ebay today at work .... no comments lol and I stumbled across this auction. I don't believe, actually I know I have never seen this stamp before. Apparently its RARE! lol http://cgi.ebay.ca/Craftool-Co-leathercraft-leather-working-tool-vintage-/230590119889?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35b03dffd1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dirtclod Report post Posted February 24, 2011 I read some where that sign was a good luck symbol before Hitler used it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spinner Report post Posted February 24, 2011 Wow...can't imagine seeing that in a US catalog given the possible interpretation. Interesting find. The shipping cost is laughable though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dirtclod Report post Posted February 24, 2011 Spinner shipping is $2.24 in the U.S. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spinner Report post Posted February 24, 2011 Spinner shipping is $2.24 in the U.S. LOL...thanks Dirtclod. I didn't even notice that for some reason my shipping was showing a default to Canada. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
newfiebackflip Report post Posted February 24, 2011 haha yes it was a sign of good luck. Ya the shipping is a bit much even to Canada. But i doubt i would be buying it for a few reasons. 1) morally i cannot lol 2) my profession would frown apon such a thing and could end my career. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dirtclod Report post Posted February 24, 2011 It showed Canada when i looked at it to. Yea $22.00 to Canada is a rip off. I've sent lots of things to Canada that weighted a pound or more it was generally around $10.00. But ripping people off on shipping seems to be the big thing now. I've seen things that weight a pound or less and they want $8 and $9.00 to send them priority mail when they can be sent for less than $5.00. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Art Report post Posted February 24, 2011 What are you, a Rabbi? It is an old "Wheel of Life" from the saddle stamp (Native American motif) series, late '70s to early '80s. Some like TeePee and Thunderbird came in the Camp Craft Kit also. Art haha yes it was a sign of good luck. Ya the shipping is a bit much even to Canada. But i doubt i would be buying it for a few reasons. 1) morally i cannot lol 2) my profession would frown apon such a thing and could end my career. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
newfiebackflip Report post Posted February 24, 2011 What are you, a Rabbi? It is an old "Wheel of Life" from the saddle stamp (Native American motif) series, late '70s to early '80s. Some like TeePee and Thunderbird came in the Camp Craft Kit also. Art No military Seeing as we all assumed the same unti told otherwise am sure the average joe would think the same Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hidepounder Report post Posted February 24, 2011 I read some where that sign was a good luck symbol before Hitler used it. You're right dirtclod, it is a good luck symbol. It was used a lot on cowboy gear, saddles, chaps, spur straps, etc. It was also used in the patterns found in Navajo rugs. I have an old Porter catalog (pre-WWII) that is decorated with the "whirling log" symbol. It is very "cowboy" and is highly prized by cowboy memorabillia collectors. I hope that someday our society will make an effort to embrace the symbol for what it originally represented rather than as a symbol of hate. Probably won't happen in my lifetime, though...... Bobby Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mendedbowl Report post Posted February 24, 2011 (edited) oops i posted late. thanks for the info art and bobby. Edited February 24, 2011 by mendedbowl Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
556guy Report post Posted February 24, 2011 (edited) A variation of this was used by the 3rd Infantry Division up until WWII when they switched to the diagonal blue and white stripes. The 3rd ID's badge had the "legs" facing in the opposite direction. Also used by a number of American Indian tribes as a good luck symbol. Edited February 24, 2011 by 556guy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spinner Report post Posted February 24, 2011 It showed Canada when i looked at it to. Yea $22.00 to Canada is a rip off. I've sent lots of things to Canada that weighted a pound or more it was generally around $10.00. But ripping people off on shipping seems to be the big thing now. I've seen things that weight a pound or less and they want $8 and $9.00 to send them priority mail when they can be sent for less than $5.00. That's like the gas tank I was looking at Sunday...$150 for the tank, $85 for shipping. I just laughed it off since I had just bought one two days before that was the same size and came from farther away for $35. The old rule stands true...the $35 was private party, the $85 one was from a bike dealership. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spinner Report post Posted February 24, 2011 You're right dirtclod, it is a good luck symbol. It was used a lot on cowboy gear, saddles, chaps, spur straps, etc. It was also used in the patterns found in Navajo rugs. I have an old Porter catalog (pre-WWII) that is decorated with the "whirling log" symbol. It is very "cowboy" and is highly prized by cowboy memorabillia collectors. I hope that someday our society will make an effort to embrace the symbol for what it originally represented rather than as a symbol of hate. Probably won't happen in my lifetime, though...... Bobby Good info Bobby, thanks for that. Unfortunately for the symbol, most folks my age or younger would never know about the 'true' meaning unless it came up in conversation like this. I plan to share the message. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skipj Report post Posted February 24, 2011 There is quite a lengthy history of the symbol in Wikipedia at: https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Swastika SkipJ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bruce johnson Report post Posted February 25, 2011 It showed Canada when i looked at it to. Yea $22.00 to Canada is a rip off. I've sent lots of things to Canada that weighted a pound or more it was generally around $10.00. But ripping people off on shipping seems to be the big thing now. I've seen things that weight a pound or less and they want $8 and $9.00 to send them priority mail when they can be sent for less than $5.00. This is on Ebay and that is the difference. Ebay puts the burden on the seller of proof of shipping, insurance, and proof of delivery. International packages are not tracked in either envelopes or small flat rate boxes. You have to put it in your own packaging, do the proofs, and insurance or stick a single leather stamp in a medium flat rate box. That gets up to $20 pretty quick. I found this out with some sales to Canada. The mediums I sent first were all tracked. When I sent a couple small flat rate boxes, the tracking ended at my local sorting center. Here is the text of a response to an inquiry I sent to Customer Service - Right off the bat, Bruce, the package you are submitting is either a Priority Mail International Flat Rate Envelope or a Small Flat Rate box. Any customs forms that start with the letter "L" are not trackable. The "L" means that it is considered a LETTER POST item. Unfortunately, the Universal Postal Unions of the World, voted NOT to track letter post mail. Believe me, the USPS would love to be able to track everything for you....so bottom line - I have no information on this package, nor can I submit an inquiry. No one tracks Letter Post. In the future if you need tracking, either send it in your OWN packaging and pay Priority by weight, or upgrade to Express Mail International. You will receive tracking then. I apologize for the inconvenience. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dirtclod Report post Posted February 25, 2011 (edited) This is on Ebay and that is the difference. Ebay puts the burden on the seller of proof of shipping, insurance, and proof of delivery. International packages are not tracked in either envelopes or small flat rate boxes. You have to put it in your own packaging, do the proofs, and insurance or stick a single leather stamp in a medium flat rate box. That gets up to $20 pretty quick. I found this out with some sales to Canada. The mediums I sent first were all tracked. When I sent a couple small flat rate boxes, the tracking ended at my local sorting center. Here is the text of a response to an inquiry I sent to Customer Service - Right off the bat, Bruce, the package you are submitting is either a Priority Mail International Flat Rate Envelope or a Small Flat Rate box. Any customs forms that start with the letter "L" are not trackable. The "L" means that it is considered a LETTER POST item. Unfortunately, the Universal Postal Unions of the World, voted NOT to track letter post mail. Believe me, the USPS would love to be able to track everything for you....so bottom line - I have no information on this package, nor can I submit an inquiry. No one tracks Letter Post. In the future if you need tracking, either send it in your OWN packaging and pay Priority by weight, or upgrade to Express Mail International. You will receive tracking then. I apologize for the inconvenience. I haven't sold anything on ebay in a couple of years at least. But i have sent things to Canada, UK, Denmark, New Zeland and other places in Europe for generally around $10.00 in my box first class. I give them the choice of first class, priority mail or express mail. If they choose to go with no insurance i tell them up front that it's their baby if something happens to it. In the last 10 years i had one lady in the UK say she didn't her package it was sent first class. Now wheither she did or didn't i don't know. That is one out of around 50 to 75 packages. Edited February 25, 2011 by dirtclod Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HorseGirl98 Report post Posted February 25, 2011 Thanks for sharing this, and everyone sharing what is truly means. I'm 17 - I interpreted it to be, well make a guess. Good info to know! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGGUNDOCTOR Report post Posted February 25, 2011 A BSA summer camp that I taught handicrafts at one time had one of those, but didn't use it. The next year I had some extra stamps that I was going to trade for ii, but someone broke into the lodge, and stole the stamping tools. That was the only one that I had ever seen until now. I figured that it was pre WWII due to the design. Swastikas are very old symbols, and have been use by many cultures. I would have no problem using that stamp today, and use it to educate people about its historical usage. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OutBackP Report post Posted February 25, 2011 A BSA summer camp that I taught handicrafts at one time had one of those, but didn't use it. The next year I had some extra stamps that I was going to trade for ii, but someone broke into the lodge, and stole the stamping tools. That was the only one that I had ever seen until now. I figured that it was pre WWII due to the design. Swastikas are very old symbols, and have been use by many cultures. I would have no problem using that stamp today, and use it to educate people about its historical usage. Maybe it's time to bring the symbol back to it's true meaning and not a sign of hate. I'd happily use the symbol and if anyone complains explain to them that the Nazi regime stole the symbol and it is time to give it back to cultures who have used it long before Hitler. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
556guy Report post Posted February 25, 2011 A variation of this was used by the 3rd Infantry Division up until WWII when they switched to the diagonal blue and white stripes. The 3rd ID's badge had the "legs" facing in the opposite direction. Also used by a number of American Indian tribes as a good luck symbol. OK, so I lied....well maybe it was just a case of old timers disease and I got my infantry divisions mixed up. This was the symbol of the 45th ID until about 1935 when the symbol became so associated with the N.S.D.A.P. The 45th then adopted the thunderbird design and continues to use it today as a Nation Guard Infantry Brigade. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
newfiebackflip Report post Posted February 25, 2011 Thanks for sharing this, and everyone sharing what is truly means. I'm 17 - I interpreted it to be, well make a guess. Good info to know! I always knew Hitler stole the original design and meaning, but I just didn't know it was Native American. If I remember correctly and I usually do, someone told me the original design was Asian. Wrong info gets passed around all the time. I do agree with everyone that it should be brought back to its original meaning but that will be one hard thing to do. Its just going to be a major stigma in history, heck Germans (from what I am told) won't even mention that period in their country. Don't really blame them! HorseGirl your only 17?! Wow I really wished someone introduced me to leather craft when I was that age, my skills would be a lot better today..... I hope! Instead I enlisted into the forces and went that route. It actually wasn't until I was about to leave for Afghanistan until I started to get interested into it. Thank god all that sand I breathed in didn't make me lose interest. Its actually really refreshing to see young people getting interested in this old trade, just don't make any custom with Justin Bieber on it PLEASE! lol Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JJLeatherworks Report post Posted February 26, 2011 A variation of this was used by the 3rd Infantry Division up until WWII when they switched to the diagonal blue and white stripes. The 3rd ID's badge had the "legs" facing in the opposite direction. Also used by a number of American Indian tribes as a good luck symbol. It was the 45th. The history of the 45th Infantry Division can be traced back to 1890 with the formation of the Militia of the Territory of Oklahoma.[3] That militia was mobilized in 1898 during the Spanish American War but was never deployed. In 1916 the First Oklahoma Infantry Regiment deployed for border security duty during theMexican Border Conflict. In 1917, the First Oklahoma Infantry Regiment, redesignated as part of the 142nd Infantry Regiment of the 36th Division fought in the final month of World War I.[3] Before the 1930s, the division's symbol was a red square with a yellow swastika, a tribute to the large Native American population in the south-western United States. On 19 October 1920, the Oklahoma State militia was organized as the 45th Infantry Division of the Oklahoma Army National Guard and organized with troops from Arizona, Colorado, New Mexico, and Oklahoma.[4] The division was organized and federally recognized on 3 August 1923 in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma.[5] It was assigned the 89th Infantry Brigade of the Colorado and Arizona National Guards, and the 90th Infantry Brigade of the Oklahoma National Guard.[6] The division's original shoulder sleeve insignia featured a left-facing swastika,[7] a common Native American symbol[citation needed], as a tribute to the south-western United States region which had a large population of Native Americans.[2] However, with the rise of the Nazi party in Germany, with its famous right-facing swastika symbol, the 45th Division stopped using the insignia. A new shoulder sleeve insignia featuring the Thunderbird, another Native American symbol, was approved in 1939.[2] Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
reddevil76 Report post Posted March 2, 2011 I always knew Hitler stole the original design and meaning, but I just didn't know it was Native American. If I remember correctly and I usually do, someone told me the original design was Asian. Wrong info gets passed around all the time. The info could be right or wrong. It definitely is in Asian culture, but I cannot say if it originates from here. This symbol can be seen on many Buddhist statues here. But I can't be sure who is older, Buddha or the Native Americans. Probably someone can chip in. One thing, I love the carving on your profile! I myself ride a 09 Triumph Speedmaster! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
newfiebackflip Report post Posted March 3, 2011 The info could be right or wrong. It definitely is in Asian culture, but I cannot say if it originates from here. This symbol can be seen on many Buddhist statues here. But I can't be sure who is older, Buddha or the Native Americans. Probably someone can chip in. One thing, I love the carving on your profile! I myself ride a 09 Triumph Speedmaster! That question is almost like asking what came first, the chicken or the egg. Thanks for the comment, that was actually my very first attempt at carving. I owned a 1971 Triumph Bonneville Bobber at the time I had made it. I wish I still had it, it was a real head turner but that thing spent more time in the shop then on the road. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
