Perma-Lok Needles - Grrr

[ljensen]

Last night I was working on a button and was set to start the interweave. I got the string threaded into the perma-lok needle and went under the first two strings. I pulled the needle through but the string stayed, all but the small bit that was threaded into the needle. Aaarrrggggghhhhhh After trying unsuccessfully to get the little bit of string out, I was forced to finish while using the jumbo needle. Of course I was trying to pry it out with a large sewing needle and my hands were slippery from the braiding soap.

So, does anyone have any good ideas on how to get the little bit of string out? This is the second needle it has happened to and I'm dead in the water until I can get some more ordered.

[Luke Hatley]

this i have did.....take a lighter and char the leather that is in the perma lock needle.

then get the smallest drill bit that will fit in the hole of the needle and twist backwards to remove the leather.

[megabit]

Sometimes you can hold it in a flame (I'd use pliers) and burn the rawhide out of the inside.

[8thsinner]

Yup, burn it baby. I just use a small needle to remove the char instead of a drill bit but burning is the only way I know of and how it was recommended to me by my dealer.

[UKRay]

I tried all of the above, but I've still got two of the durn things that I can't use. .. This is an ongoing hassle that needs a really effective solution if those needles are going to work properly. Has anyone invented a proper extractor?

Ray

[Leatherpownder]

Just get it good and hot (it will pop out when it's hot enough) I use a small torch and it just takes a second.

[Shelly]

Best advice I can give any braider of rawhide, etc - trim the string on the end to a tapered point - make sure it has no fuzzy stuff on the edges - pull the string thru Feibings White Saddle Soap - BRAID...if it gets a little messed up, retrim and soap again - I usually don't have to retrim on buttons - sometimes on nose buttons on a bosal or heel knot. Benefits - don't have to buy so many of those darn needles, and don't have to go looking for them before you can braid something...this is not to say that I don't have any needles - I don't buy permalok needles - only the type that splits open, and has the two backwards pointing hooks, as these proved out long ago to be the better choice and hold a string much better - I have had the same set of needles for the past 20 years - so I rarely use them. That said, the string must still be tapered before inserting into any of these needles...just try tapering the string, as above, and braid without fussing with the needle. One other thing - use a good awl - in order to not use the needle, you will open the space you are sending the string thru with your awl - please use a braiding awl that has a long, tapered tip - not the type that looks like a spade on the end. You want to open a channel for the string, but not a chasm - should be not much bigger than the string. Side benefit of learning to use your awl before sending a tapered string thru, is that you have a chance to use this awl to help straighten up your foundation before and as you finish the knot with your interweave string - the foundation part of the knot ends up over/under one - the interweave string, whether the same string or a different color builds/splits pairs, whether you are making a herringbone style or gaucho style weave, etc, etc. After you have braided the knot - use your awl to carefully go thru the knot and make sure it is pulled evenly, take out any slack as you carefully tighten it. Then bury the ends, preferably under 3 strings, so the ends don't back out over time - pull the ends slightly as you trim off with your pointed exacto blade...the end will retract slightly as it drys and will be unseen after you finish the knot. Use a rub stick or whatever you like to use to finish the knot - especially on rawhide, before it drys completely, to set and smooth the braiding and take out any 'rough' look. When it's dry, add whatever finish you like on your work. If you practice this, you will have far less 'GRRRR' moments! Edited March 2, 2011 by Shelly

[roo4u]

well i use those little two-prong lacing needles instead....they are easier to get through a tight knot. i hardly ever have to tighten my knots. they can be a bit of a pain to get the lace into at first but if you put the lace in and crimp use pliers to set the prongs into the lace it will not come out.

[8thsinner]

I have found the pronged needles a pain to use in the past when I worked with a lot more cowhide.

Moving onto roo they might hold better, or perhaps even rawhide as it can be made fairly stiff through wetting and drying out.

But using perma lok needles, I have filed the tips of mine so they are slightly flatter, the threaded section only extends about a third of the way in so it leaves a lot of room for shaping and as it's brass it's easy to shape and smooth down.

With any leather though I have found it improves over time in getting the right taper, using the right amount of braiding grease and getting a well sized knot.

i have not bought more than three of each size in the last 6-7 years.

[roo4u]

well the two-prong can be a pain at first... but once you get used to them they are quick and easy to use.

[ljensen]

Thanks for the tips. I tried burning it out with the lighter but then I got impatient. I have some of the prong needles but I can't get along with them. I do think getting a long thin awl would help like Shelly said.

[megabit]

Thanks for the tips. I tried burning it out with the lighter but then I got impatient. I have some of the prong needles but I can't get along with them. I do think getting a long thin awl would help like Shelly said.

Use the burner on the stove that will get hot lots faster than a lighter.

[rawhide1]

I like to use the flat needles when I use roo. I like to take and break one of the tabs off and then use some glue to hold the roo on the remaining tab. It works like a champ. When I'm using rawhide I just use a fid as the rawhide is stiff enough on it's own.

Mike