Juki 243

[Mechanical Cowgirl]

There's a Juki 243 for sale a few hours away, was wondering if anyone could give me some advice on it before I spend a bunch of time and money going to look at it. It's used and I've googled it and it is not the new white model it's an old green one. I have an old Juki machine that does great for chaps and such but the foot can't lift up high enough for more than about 1/4" of leather. I'd like to get something with at least 5/8" lift for refleecing skirts and heavier working tack, there's some call for harness repair in the area as well.

Would anyone recommend the 243? And what price range should it be in to be reasonable?

Thanks!

[CowboyBob]

Well if a flatbed will work for you & you can get it for under $1,000.00 it might be worth getting because for $2,095.00 +shpg you can buy a brand new Cyl arm machine.

Bob

[Art]

It is a heavy material sewing machine. BUT, it is flat bed. Ask any of the sewing machine dealers at the top of the page how many flat beds they sell for heavy leatherworking. Not many. Flat bed machines are used where they do construction of parts (that they can do on a flat bed) then put them together on a post or a cylinder arm machine. With a cylinder arm, there is the needle and then it drops off at the end of the arm, perfect for constructing a whole bunch of stuff including bags. If you NEED a flat bed, then you can make a table for a cylinder arm that works great, but then when you need the cylinder arm, you just take the table off. Most of the dealers supply these for their cylinder arm machines, most folks put them on once or twice then figure out they don't need them. Once you learn to sew on a cylinder arm, you know how to use it for almost everything.

Flat beds are a little more common for the medium range machines as the material they sew is quite a bit more flexible, and the leather for flatbed projects like chaps is both flexible and large. For some reason, cylinder arm medium weight machines are a bit more expensive too.

If you are closing bags or shoes, the cylinder arm is much more useful.

If you do all around leather projects, you will end-up with a 618 type medium duty machine and a 441 clone, right now you should be looking for the 441 clone (or a real 441 if you get lucky).

Art

There's a Juki 243 for sale a few hours away, was wondering if anyone could give me some advice on it before I spend a bunch of time and money going to look at it. It's used and I've googled it and it is not the new white model it's an old green one. I have an old Juki machine that does great for chaps and such but the foot can't lift up high enough for more than about 1/4" of leather. I'd like to get something with at least 5/8" lift for refleecing skirts and heavier working tack, there's some call for harness repair in the area as well.

Would anyone recommend the 243? And what price range should it be in to be reasonable?

Thanks!

[Mechanical Cowgirl]

I was wondering about the table part of it, that's what I have now but all the heavy machines I've seen in shops are the cylinder arm. Thanks for all the tips and advice, I'll keep looking :-)

[Mechanical Cowgirl]

If you do all around leather projects, you will end-up with a 618 type medium duty machine and a 441 clone, right now you should be looking for the 441 clone (or a real 441 if you get lucky).

Art

I've seen the '441' mentioned on several threads here, what brand is it? What about the Cobra class 4 or a Cowboy 4500? There's a somewhat local saddlemaker with an Artisan cylinder arm machine who loves it, but when I was looking for my first machine I was told those where lower quality and to now waste my money on them. Thoughts?

I don't need top of the line, but I want to put enough money into a new machine that I will have one that will work well and for a long time.

Thanks!

[Art]

"441" references the beloved Juki 441 machines. While they were in patent, they were rather expensive but one of the best originally for heavy fabric, but were modified later to sew leather. This was the base machine for the Ferdco Pro 2000 before they switched to Chinese machines which were "clones" or the original 441.

The Cobra class 3 and 4, the Artisan 3000 and 4000, and several of the Cowboys are all clones of the Juki 441; they have gone through several iterations as to arm length and this and that, but basically, all the Juki parts fit most of the machines in various and sundry ways. The Chinese factories also clone some of the very popular Adler machines and a few of the Pfaff machines, all pretty good quality. Some better than others.

The 441 clones were what basically made the "big stitchers" available to the common leatherworker and saddlemaker. The price is right, and the machines are generally up to the task, however, quality varies. Competition amongst various dealers has kept the price quite low, but the Yuan to Dollar exchange rates have been inching up, the last time about a month ago around 7%. There is not enough margin to absorb those kinds of increases for long; so expect prices to rise.

Art

I've seen the '441' mentioned on several threads here, what brand is it? What about the Cobra class 4 or a Cowboy 4500? There's a somewhat local saddlemaker with an Artisan cylinder arm machine who loves it, but when I was looking for my first machine I was told those where lower quality and to now waste my money on them. Thoughts?

I don't need top of the line, but I want to put enough money into a new machine that I will have one that will work well and for a long time.

Thanks!

[Mechanical Cowgirl]

Art- Thanks for all the thought and time you've put into answering my questions! I really appriciate it, which I know can be hard to get across in typing...

So, pretty much, if it's not a Juki 441 then it is a clone. Are any brands better than another or are they all comparable and you just look for the best price and shipping deal?

I have a Juki LU-563 currently, is there a 441 clone that could perform well on chaps and the heavier stuff so I would only have one machine in my shop? And, if there is one machine that would work for all my projects, what could I expect to get out of my 563? I would kinda hate to part with it as it is one of the old Japanise made ones and works perfectly, it hasn't been used much and the stand and motor were just bought new a few years ago, not much runtime on it and I'm the only one that has used it in close to 15 years.

Thanks!

[Art]

You don't want only one machine in your shop, you want two. The 563 will work for medium and small stuff, and the 441 will work for all the big stuff. Setting up the 441 to do medium stuff can be a pain, and the medium machine (563) won't do anything heavy at all, so you need two. You mentioned the Cobra before, and that is an excellent machine with even better service. Others are good too, some not so much. A good dealer is almost as important as a good machine. I have 6 Cobra machines, and they haven't given me any grief, so I can pretty much endorse them.

Art

Art- Thanks for all the thought and time you've put into answering my questions! I really appriciate it, which I know can be hard to get across in typing...

So, pretty much, if it's not a Juki 441 then it is a clone. Are any brands better than another or are they all comparable and you just look for the best price and shipping deal?

I have a Juki LU-563 currently, is there a 441 clone that could perform well on chaps and the heavier stuff so I would only have one machine in my shop? And, if there is one machine that would work for all my projects, what could I expect to get out of my 563? I would kinda hate to part with it as it is one of the old Japanise made ones and works perfectly, it hasn't been used much and the stand and motor were just bought new a few years ago, not much runtime on it and I'm the only one that has used it in close to 15 years.

Thanks!

[Mechanical Cowgirl]

You don't want only one machine in your shop, you want two. The 563 will work for medium and small stuff, and the 441 will work for all the big stuff. Setting up the 441 to do medium stuff can be a pain, and the medium machine (563) won't do anything heavy at all, so you need two. You mentioned the Cobra before, and that is an excellent machine with even better service. Others are good too, some not so much. A good dealer is almost as important as a good machine. I have 6 Cobra machines, and they haven't given me any grief, so I can pretty much endorse them.

Art

Perfect, I will start saving for a Cobra and keep my eye out in the mean time for a used 441, clone or not, and try to see if I can re-arrange my leather shop to make room for the new machine. My husband just got done building me a new leather shop and I've almost outgrown it already in less than a month. Luckily about half the space is taken up by used tack that I have for sale, I can always forgo that venture and stick to just new stuff, but I figured selling some used stuff would help me get some exposure at first.

Thanks a million for your help!