Blackjack Question

[usmc0341]

Thanks Lobo, I'm not selling them I just want to make one because I want one. When I started in Law Enforcement I carried a PR24 and now an ASP. Our pants still have the slapjack pocket but we aren't allowed to carry them.

[marine mp]

Mortarman,

As with several other replies, I have made several, (making one as we type) that is specifically a "sap" I fill it with BB's and has a 5/16 expansion spring from top to bottom. Mine has bb's in the handle with the spring. It is like others have stated, filled from the handle and sewn up and the leather strap wraps over the top of the hand and is sewn again to form a loop. Don't know how to post pictures or I would show. As Lobo has stated....be weary as to how it is maketed if they are to be sold. My state allow one to be bought and carried, but it is illegal to use it on a person. But....that being said......if my life is in danger I don't believe I will be asking myself if it is legal or illegal. It is better for me to be "tried by twelve, than carried by six" Semper-fi MIke

[Billsotx]

Not sure if this is the right place for this but it seems like the only place it fits. I want to make a blackjack (the things cops carried way back when) but can't figure out what the "inners" are. I'm pretty sure it's lead but I'm not sure if I can just use a whole bunch of little fishing sinkers or if it needs to be one long piece to make it more rigid. I hope this makes sense to someone because it makes sense as I'm typing it but I know what I'm thinking. If someone has cut one in half or has made one I would appreciate the input. Thank you.

What we typically referred to as a blackjack was a lead weight on the end of a spring and round in shape; while a slapjack is flat. You'll mostly see blackjacks covered with chrome tanned thin cheesy leather; a good one will be covered with rawhide braided thongs with a monkey's fist type of knot at the grip end tying it all together. We preferred the rawhide because it cuts like a knife when you wield it. I no longer have the casting tools but I altered a large fishing sinker weight to cast them, I'm talking a large sinker. I used to see them around fishing tackle shops. The procedure is the same as casting bullets; a stiff spring about 3/4 to 7/8 inch diameter is inserted into the mold and then the molten lead is poured in. If you're not familiar with casting you might read up on bullet casting, there's tons of stuff on the web.

For slap-jacks I also used a casting, but my mold was the lid from a pickle jar. It's a onetime use mold; lids are cheap. The slap uses a flat spring, not a coil, at least the ones around this part of the country. You can use a coil spring if you want, but you'll probably have to jury rig another kind of mold. Anyway, for the flat spring I would cut and grind a piece of suitable shape from an old or cheap carpenter's saw. I've made smaller jacks of this design with old putty knives (large size); it needs to be spring steel hard if you want a good one and it needs to be cast in one piece too. Back to construction, just a thin slit is cut in the side of the jar lid and the spring is slipped through it; it needs to be a tight fit; you want the end of the spring steel within the lid taking up about 3/4s of the area cross the diameter of the lid, maybe just a tad more. Regress back, I also punched two or three holes in the business end of the spring, the one that protrudes into the lid, so that the molten lead runs through said holes and becomes firmly attached to the spring steel. This put the spring centered in the lead casting. After the lead has cooled the lid is cut away from the lead and spring and the lead can be cleaned up and shaped to your design.

I covered mine with 11/12 oz. cowhide; a welt was inserted much like we put in the old border patrol style holsters so that there was a smooth flow in the whole appearance of the thing. I would also put a loop on one side to slip your hand through.

I'm not going to preach to you about use and I'm not into PC crud, but my experience was the shot filled saps do not hold up well in actual use and veg-tanned cowhide or horsehide is more prone to leave large whelps and bruises, while rawhide cut and draws blood. Nothing takes the fight out of an opponent or subject resisting arrest quicker than the sight of his/her own blood. If you're just making one for nostalgia the shot filling will be easiest, if you are making an actual tool I would go with a casting no exception. All this said, jacks and saps fell from vogue in the late 80s as we in law enforcement were pounded into a kinder and gentler group of warriors. (If you believe the kinder/gentler part, I have a nice playa down near Del Rio, TX that I'll sell real cheap ... LOL!)

Below are links to some pix that may help you. I haven't seen a pix of a rawhide jack, but the Nazi design on the one page is real close. That's probably where our original design stemmed from.

http://www.donrearic.com/sap.html

http://www.google.com/search?q=police+blackjack&hl=en&rlz=1C1CHHQ_enUS390US391&prmd=ivns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=bn-gTe-nLNO50QHekY2QBQ&ved=0CCkQsAQ&biw=1199&bih=654

Maybe this will make some since and help a little.

Semper Fi,

Bill

[robs456]

I made this one a while back, it's filled with no. 9 shot throughout and is very well balanced. It's heavy though (made for training) so if you want to carry one around use the "shot bag method" explained above, or cast a medallion as in Bill's excellent post above.

[Reaper]

5:11 still sells lead shot knuckle gloves. I was playing around with one of the guys who has a pair and he hit another of our friends behind the ear as he walked past us. Actually dropped him to his knees and he really didn't hit him that hard.

I do know that it is as mentioned above, in some places it is against the law to even make them let alone sell them.

Kind of like Armor Piercing Ammo, here in Florida it is against the law to Make, Sell, Possess any as a Civilian.

[Sixer]

A blackjack has a solid piece of lead in it, and sometime a spring material in the handle part.

A sap is usually loaded with lead shot, bird shot......I made one recently filled with BBs.

Interesting... what kind of "spring" are we talking about? An actual coiled spring, or a flat piece of flexible metal?