Resist And Leather Dye -

[equiss]

I have tried resist and antique dye a few times, always with the same disappointing results.....why is this happening? I realize the pics aren't that great - but the best I can do. I put the resist on, let it dry, then applied the antique dye on a cloth, then rubbed it on the leather. The result is an uneven application - you can tell where I first dabbed the dye, and it didn't spread evenly...what can I do different? It is really disappointing to try so hard to tool something, then ruin it with dye. ARGH!

[electrathon]

It looks to me like you are being too conservative with both your finish and the antique. Not sure what brand of finish you used, that can make a big difference too.

What I do: I usually cover the piece with a generous coat of Neet-Laq. One coat is better than two. Make sure you have full coverage. I use sheepskin as a dauber. Let it dry overnight. I then cover it with a layer of Fiebings antique paste. It needs to be really covered. Right away wipe it back off. I wipe it on with sheepskin, wipe off with a rag, then gentle directional wiping with sheepskin to do the final clean up. Follow that with a coat of Tan-kote.

Aaron

[azrider]

I will usually use Bee Natural RTC as a resist. I do one light coat, let dry over night, and then do a second coat. After that I put the antique paste on, but I put it on thick. I use a dabber. As soon as I have the piece covered in antique, I will start wiping it away with a damp rag. I keep wiping until it's even, and then go back over any place that seems like it didn't get enough, and wipe down again. Once it seems even, I let it dry over night, and then do a light coat of RTC, and a second coat when that dries.

[pete]

I have tried resist and antique dye a few times, always with the same disappointing results.....why is this happening? I realize the pics aren't that great - but the best I can do. I put the resist on, let it dry, then applied the antique dye on a cloth, then rubbed it on the leather. The result is an uneven application - you can tell where I first dabbed the dye, and it didn't spread evenly...what can I do different? It is really disappointing to try so hard to tool something, then ruin it with dye. ARGH!

there's VERY little room for mistakes when you use a dye. It's not really made for what you are doing.

Are you using a LIQUID DYE as you would a paste antique? Doesn't work that way. Especially if you are putting it on with a rag. If anything you would need to airbrush it on but you still won't get the results that you see here. Save the dye for backgrounds and totally dye-ing a piece.

pete

[equiss]

I tried the neet lac and will have to try that again...it still didn't work as expected, but maybe I let it sit too long. It sat for a few days before I went to apply the antique gel. Or maybe not enough Neet Lac? But will try again, disappointed thinking I should have left the tooling a natural finish......I don't know why I have to make everything harder than it is, just my nature I guess, or my nature is that everything comes harder for me than it should thanks for the advice

PS - I am trying to use the antiqu paste, not dye - sorry for the mis-information

Edited April 27, 2011 by equiss

[pete]

It LOOKS like you didn't get a complete coverage with the neat-lac. When it comes to things like basketweaves you must use something like a skeepskin to really get the neat-lac into the cracks.Use a fairly good amount on a scrap, wipe it across the lid and immediately start rubbing it in from all directions- circular, up, down, all over. It can't sit too long as you thought. It must dry.

If it stuck in the cracks in some places and not in others then you didn't get enough paste on it to begin with.

YOUR situation looks like you may have gotten too much on it in places as it didn't take on most of the cracks.

Remember, all that you are trying to do with the resist is to lightly coat the surface leather and allow the paste to invade the crevices.

SO>>>>>>> wet, DON"T SOAK, the scrap and scrape it across the lid and quickly and lightly cover the piece, let dry and proceed with the antique. GET HEAVY with the antique paste and REALLY RUB IT IN in all directions. I use a huge glob on my projects so that you can't see the leather while i smear it on! Wipes right off.

pete

[Scary Leatherworks]

I use the Antique gel as well. I use sheep wool to apply it. you said you are using a cloth to apply yours and that might be part of the problem. The rag wont get the antique deep in to the tooling and that is the very reason a cloth is used to wipe OFF the antique because it wont go into the tooling and remove the antique. I cut off a small piece of sheep wool maybe 2x2" and trim it down so it's not so wooly maybe 3/8" long hair. apply the Antique to the wool and rub it in all directions. Keep applying the antique until everything is coated well. Then use a cloth to wipe it off. You need to keep the cloth from going to deep into the tooling so sometimes it helps to wrap it around something firm I use a dry sponge. Wipe off all the excess (change the cloth so it's always a clean) you may need to slightly dampen the cloth to get the last bit of antique off the surface. Of course this is all after I have done my resist. I don't use neet-lac I use leather balm with atom wax but I have used super sheen in the past and works as well. For the resist I apply a few good coats and let it dry then rub it with a clean sheep wool. apply the antique as above and then let the antique left in the tooling dry overnight. to finish I airbrush my finish on so it doesn't wipe any antique out.

Sorry this is so wordy but hope it helps.

Scott

[terrymac]

It appears from your pictures, you are not applying enough antique paste. If you have spots that didn't darken, you weren't applying enough paste. Question, are you using Fiebing's Antique paste, or one of the Eco products? I found out the hard way, Neatlac and Eco products do not mix? Other question, are you using the wipe-on Neatlac (Clearlac) or are you trying to use the spray version? I apply two light coats of the Neatlac (wipe on), and let dry overnight. Then I apply the Fiebing's Antique Paste with a piece of sheep wool, and goop it all over, really goop. I then use sheep wool to get the excess off as you really want only to leave the paste that is in cuts, background areas, etc. If you don't, you will end up with with "dryed mud puddle areas" on your work. There is an excellent vide on antiquing on U Tube produced by a saddle shop (can't remeber the name). Hope this helps,

Terry

[Horseshoe]

i use the eco flow antique gel applied with an old T-shirt and no resist. I just put it on super heavy making sure it gets in all the nooks and crannies. I make sure the gel has pretty even coverage, let it sit for only about 15 minuets or so then I wipe it down with a wet paper towel. If I want it lighter I wipe it down very hard with the wet paper towel, If I want it darker I just repeat the process a couple of times. I actually want the pieces I antique to have somewhat uneven coloring, because to me that is the point of antiquing a piece. If I want more even coloring I use dye.

Edited April 28, 2011 by Horseshoe

[hidepounder]

equis,

After looking at your project it appears to me that you didn't get nearly enough NeatLac on as a resist, nor does it appear that you applied enough antique paste. IMHO NeatLac is best applied with a trimmed piece of woolskin. I apply it thoroughly and sometimes twice to insure that I get a good even coat covering ALL of the leather. When it is completely dry I apply my antique paste with a trimmed woolskin and rub it in thoroughly insuring that every little crevice is coated. I then remove the bulk of the paste with a few paper towels. This does two things for me. One, I don't waste woolskin and two by wiping the residue off with a paper towel, residue is left in the cuts and background. Depending on how dark I want the cuts to be I then scrub the entire surface with trimmed woolskin to remove the balance of the residue. Typically I try to remove everything from the cuts and background because they are already darker by virtue of being left exposed to the antique longer than the smooth surface of the leather. I then polish the surface of the entire piece with trimmed woolskin. At this point no residual antique is picked up with the woolskin and the surface of the leather takes on a nice glow. I prefer to use NeatLac as a final finish. While using Tan Kote is fairly common....Tan Kote is is what is used to "cut" antique paste, so it never made sense to me to use it as a finish when antique has been applied. One additional tip I might offer. Before applying a resist, I clean my leather with Oxalic acid. This helps to insure that any reisdual dirt, oil etc., is removed from the leather. It insures that your color will come out smooth and even rather than blotched. After, all, that is the purpose for applying a resist in the first place.....to create a smooth even finish on a product which has a natural inconsistent surface which is further varied by handling, tooling, etc.

Hope this helps....

Bobby

[equiss]

Thank you all for the suggestions, I still have a lot to learn even though I feel I've made progress. I didn't even know you could buy NeatLac in a bottle vs. spray can. So, I have the spray can, but I would like to try the bottle. And this gives me some ideas. I tried again the other night to do another piece, and it came out more "medium brown" all over than "antique" looking, and it was floral with background tooling, so I think what you have said will help a lot - thank you for taking the time!

Charlene

[electrathon]

I prefer to use NeatLac as a final finish. While using Tan Kote is fairly common....Tan Kote is is what is used to "cut" antique paste, so it never made sense to me to use it as a finish when antique has been applied. One additional tip I might offer.

Bobby,

Not to hyjack this post, but this is in line to the question.

First I want to say that you are a far better tooler than I. I am not trying to contradict you but am very curious over this statement.

It is my understanding that the reason to not use Neet-Laq as a second finish coat over the antique is that the antique creates a layer that the Neet-Laq does not bond to. Then, much later, the flexing can make then Neet-Laq pop/chip out of the cracks where the antique is.

I have noticed when using Tan Kote that it does disolve off some of the surface residual that was left behind sort of cleaning up the surface a little better. I don't know if Neet-Laq will do the same thing or not.

Aaron

[hidepounder]

Bobby,

It is my understanding that the reason to not use Neet-Laq as a second finish coat over the antique is that the antique creates a layer that the Neet-Laq does not bond to. Then, much later, the flexing can make then Neet-Laq pop/chip out of the cracks where the antique is.

Aaron

Hi Aaron!

I have heard some of these bizarre claims and it is simply not true! To begin with, antique paste is NOT a sealer. Anything can penetrate it! Additionally Fiebings recommends that Tan Kote NOT be used as a resist because their antique paste will penetrate it. If you read the antique paste label it recommends that Tan Kote be used to "cut" the paste if required. Consequently I don't put the two together. Please don't misunderstand me, I'm not knocking Tan Kote....I like it and use it a lot! And a lot of people use it successfully as a sealer over antique but it doesn't seem like a good practice to me and I just prefer not to use it over an antique finish. It makes a lot more sense to me to use the same product for a finish that I used as a resist. That way I am insured against having any compatibility problems!!! BTW, both products will "lift" the antique color when applied. I have seen NeatLac crack and chip and in every instance it was grossly overused and applied incorrectly. And in most of those instances the NeatLac was sprayed from a can which I recommend against in most csaes. It is best applied with a trimmed wool skin and worked thoroughly into the leather. I like to apply a couple of light coats. I've been using it since the late sixtes and I have never had a problem with it so that is a track record I have confidence in. So anyway, "that's my story and I'm sticking to it!" :>)

Hope this helps.....

Bobby

[whinewine]

Hi Aaron!

I have heard some of these bizarre claims and it is simply not true! To begin with, antique paste is NOT a sealer. Anything can penetrate it! Additionally Fiebings recommends that Tan Kote NOT be used as a resist because their antique paste will penetrate it. If you read the antique paste label it recommends that Tan Kote be used to "cut" the paste if required. Consequently I don't put the two together. Please don't misunderstand me, I'm not knocking Tan Kote....I like it and use it a lot! And a lot of people use it successfully as a sealer over antique but it doesn't seem like a good practice to me and I just prefer not to use it over an antique finish. It makes a lot more sense to me to use the same product for a finish that I used as a resist. That way I am insured against having any compatibility problems!!! BTW, both products will "lift" the antique color when applied. I have seen NeatLac crack and chip and in every instance it was grossly overused and applied incorrectly. And in most of those instances the NeatLac was sprayed from a can which I recommend against in most csaes. It is best applied with a trimmed wool skin and worked thoroughly into the leather. I like to apply a couple of light coats. I've been using it since the late sixtes and I have never had a problem with it so that is a track record I have confidence in. So anyway, "that's my story and I'm sticking to it!" :>)

Hope this helps.....

Bobby

I think some of the confusion concerns the old, turpentine-based antiques. For those, Neatlac did not bond as a final finish coat. I don't know about the more modern, wax-based/paste & gelflo antiques...

russ

[billsreef]

I've been using Neat Lac about 10 years less than Bobby, and I've had the same observations. Haven't had any problems with it when using it as a final sealer over Fiebings Antique gel. Makes for a great combination I think. Haven't had any peel, crack or chip in that time either, and I'm pretty hard on belts and sheaths

[electrathon]

I think some of the confusion concerns the old, turpentine-based antiques. For those, Neatlac did not bond as a final finish coat. I don't know about the more modern, wax-based/paste & gelflo antiques...

russ

This very well could be where it is from. I heard this and accepted that it likely was true, went on from there. I do remember it was over the statement that antique was a wax bassed product (not even sure if that is true) and that it was difficult to bond neet-laq to a wax layer.

My next project I will try using Neet-laq as a top sealer and see how it goes.