Which Machine To Buy?

[Missing Strap]

I have been using an Adler 105-25mo for sewing straps. Typical thickness being sewn is about 16-17oz of latigo leather with a preferred thread size of 207 using a size 24 needle. I am wanting to get into more than just straps and thinking of going to a flat bed walking foot like the Consew 255rb3, juki 1541S, maybe the new Weaver 2670. I know the leather will fit under the presser foot, however It is my understanding that these machines only recommend size 138 thread. I would like help from anyone out there in leather land that knows if any of these machines could handle size 207 or recommend one that does that may be in the general price range of $1500-$3000. I was hoping that someone could say that if you set it up just right that any of these could handle it without constant thread issues. I have talked to some sales people, but I want to hear from users. All recommendations or advice welcome. I added a pic of the straps just to get a sense of some of the work. Thanks in advance.

[Missing Strap]

Okay just saw the Cobra 18. It looks like the ticket and in the right price range. I have read rave reviews on Steve. Winner Winner Chicken dinner. Still would like to see any comments if any has other recommendations.

[Missing Strap]

Nothing like doing your homework before you post. Okay found that the Artisan 797 AB NS can handle 207. The Cobra and Artisan sure look similar. I am guessing they use the same body and put their own love inside to make it their own or just a nameplate? I shouldn't spread conspiracy theories. Anyway, it looks like there are machines out there that'll do the job. So which one to pick?? Love to hear from ya!

[Wizcrafts]

While I can induce my walking foot machine to sew with #207 thread, it does so reluctantly and with great stress on the moving parts. When I load the same thickness of thread into a Cobra Class 4, or Cowboy CB4500, or Union Lockstitch machine, it sews it with ease, into much greater thicknesses than any normal machine can handle. Even an Adler 204/205 will sew to 3/4" with ease. The Cowboy and Cobra big stitchers are well within your stated budget. The big Adler is not.

[Johanna]

The Artisan, Cowboy and Cobra will do what you need, and all three have excellent customer service. I suggest calling the dealers and talking to them. You'll get a good idea of the kind of "after-service" you can expect, and they might have other considerations you haven't thought of. Do your homework, and you'll be satisfied with your purchase.

Johanna

[Art]

Hi Brad,

The Artisan 797 is functionally equivalent to the Cobra Class 17; they do not have needle feed. The Class 18 has needle feed, and yes it does sew 207, I run 138 in the bobbin when I do that, but it has a big bobbin and hook and should handle 207. If you are going to sew 207 all the time, just get the Class 3 or 4 machine, you also get a cylinder arm machine which is more useful, and a detachable table is available.

Art

Nothing like doing your homework before you post. Okay found that the Artisan 797 AB NS can handle 207. The Cobra and Artisan sure look similar. I am guessing they use the same body and put their own love inside to make it their own or just a nameplate? I shouldn't spread conspiracy theories. Anyway, it looks like there are machines out there that'll do the job. So which one to pick?? Love to hear from ya!

[JerryZ]

Hi Brad

I choose not post very often, but at this time I believe that my skills and suggestions are warrented here.

As Owner of the Artisan company and designer of the Artisan model 618-1 SC LTHR way back in 1997, and

the TORO-3000 in 2005, along with hundreds of labor saving machinery and devices,

I have the skills to determine which machine is best for your stated usage.

The Artisan 618-1 SC LTHR flat bed walking foot machine is your choice and sews size 207 thread in the needle and bobbin with a #23 needle. No Problem

We have delivered more that 4000 of these machine along with all of of other models. Over 31,800 Artisan brand machines to date.

Artisan manufacturers and ships about 150 to 225 leather sewing machine monthly.

We are a real company with a large staff of dedicated people and are located in a brick building of over 14,000 square feet.

We are far from a pay-by-the-month warehouse, or a one man show.

We offer free telephone support and a lifetime limited warranty on all of our equipment. Because of our volume of shipping,

we can also offer the lowest possible freight rates in North America. Call us for additional info.

Please do your homework, call the suppliers, except for the snake, all are good people. Some have better products like Artisan, Juki and Weaver,

others less quality. Ask questions.Check out what I say.

Jerry Zonis

Owner of Artisan Sewing Supplies for over 44 years

888 838 1408

[Johanna]

The "except for the snake" remark went too far. If this conversation degenerates further, I will close this thread.

Johanna

Admin

[MADMAX22]

I am by no means experienced with sewing machines to say the least but I have been picking Art's opinion and a little of wizcraft as well. Not to mention reading tons of stuff both here and all over the web trying to find a sewing machine. I originally was going to try and find a used maybe older style machine but in the end after a couple of weeks of that I decided that for now spending the cash and getting something new that can do everything I want was the way to go. I really did alot of looking around and after deliberating for awhile due to the amount of money I was going to be spending decided on the CB4500. I purchased it from Neels saddlery after talking to him and Bob a couple of times. no offense to Bob at all it was just that I talked to Neel first and they were both as far away from me as the other. The price is pretty darn good over all. Got the whole package with flat table insert and everything should be here friday.

The one nice thing about getting one of these cylinder bed machines is that you can basically turn it into a flat bed machine with the table top attachment. I also kept in mind the 16" arm for my own use as well as if I ever need to sell it. I cant give a review of the machine till I get it but I hope it is as good as alot of people say. Similar if not the same machine that is offered by Cobra and others, consew which was alot more expensive and went above my price range. I am in no way worried about purchasing from a one man show either. I think the smaller companies in my experience seem to generally have some very good customer service. No complaints about Neels so far.

[Wizcrafts]

To further refine my previous statements about qualified sewing machines, consider these points:

1. A less capable machine may be stretched beyond its normal operating parameters, allowing it to use heavier thread and sew thicker material than it was designed for. Eventually, this will lead to premature wearing out of the main moving parts. It will also call for more frequent bobbin reloads.
2. A more capable machine can easily be dumbed down to sew lighter weight material, with thinner thread and smaller needles than are normally used. They are not ruined by sewing into thick, dense leather with very heavy thread. The big stitchers have very large capacity bobbins, requiring much fewer reloads.
3. All of the Juki 411 and Adler 205 clones have flat table attachments that screw onto their work tables. While this small table top is not the same as the 20 inch deep standard industrial table top, it does offer about 8 inches of depth and over a foot in length (l-r), adding much stability to work that needs to be spun around while laying flat. In contrast, a flat bed machine can never become a cylinder arm machine!

I work for a one man shop, as a part time helper and sewing machine operator. I myself am a one man shop, as a leather worker and computer troubleshooter. I trust one man operations for their devotion to their customers and willingness to speak with us. It is comforting to speak with the same person when you have problems with a machine, or need spare, or non-standard parts, quickly. If the owner of a one man shop gives me a special price, nobody upstream is going to over-ride him. Great customer service will always lead to referrals and return business. Putting down competitors tends to have the opposite effect, in my experience and in my plans for future purchases.

As for the remark about "the snake" not being a good guy, read what the Chinese Zodiac says about those born as "snakes:"

Ancient Chinese wisdom says a Snake in the house is a good omen because it means your family will not starve. This could be taken metaphorically to mean that a Snake could never have a problem with his family starving because he is such a great mediator, making him good at business. Or it could mean that a Snake would be willing to sacrifice his possessions, something the Snake has a lot of, in order to pay for his family's food. Any way it is interpreted is representative of the Snake's character and is a measure of the value he puts on his material wealth. The Snake is keen and cunning, quite intelligent and wise.

Edited May 5, 2011 by Wizcrafts

[Cobra Steve]

To further refine my previous statements about qualified sewing machines, consider these points:

1. A less capable machine may be stretched beyond its normal operating parameters, allowing it to use heavier thread and sew thicker material than it was designed for. Eventually, this will lead to premature wearing out of the main moving parts. It will also call for more frequent bobbin reloads.
2. A more capable machine can easily be dumbed down to sew lighter weight material, with thinner thread and smaller needles than are normally used. They are not ruined by sewing into thick, dense leather with very heavy thread. The big stitchers have very large capacity bobbins, requiring much fewer reloads.
3. All of the Juki 411 and Adler 205 clones have flat table attachments that screw onto their work tables. While this small table top is not the same as the 20 inch deep standard industrial table top, it does offer about 8 inches of depth and over a foot in length (l-r), adding much stability to work that needs to be spun around while laying flat. In contrast, a flat bed machine can never become a cylinder arm machine!

I work for a one man shop, as a part time helper and sewing machine operator. I myself am a one man shop, as a leather worker and computer troubleshooter. I trust one man operations for their devotion to their customers and willingness to speak with us. It is comforting to speak with the same person when you have problems with a machine, or need spare, or non-standard parts, quickly. If the owner of a one man shop gives me a special price, nobody upstream is going to over-ride him. Great customer service will always lead to referrals and return business. Putting down competitors tends to have the opposite effect, in my experience and in my plans for future purchases.

As for the remark about "the snake" not being a good guy, read what the Chinese Zodiac says about those born as "snakes:"

Thank you, Wiz. I appreciate your insight. Steve

[Johanna]

Thank you, Wiz. I appreciate your insight. Steve

Guys, I love all of you, and I am closing this topic for everyone's benefit. I wish people would stop posting "which machine is best?" topics and post "I want to do this and that, what will work best for me?" You guys all know your stuff, and we're grateful you share your insight and knowledge. Let's keep our discussions relevant and useful, and not make a circus out of leatherworker.net. People come here because they want to know something, not because they want to trigger landmines.

Johanna