Lace Cutting Question

[acox4t4]

Howdy All. I've got 3 roo hides that I've been to chicken to cut so far but with vaccation coming up I'm wanting to get them cut so that I can take the lace with me since I'll have a whole week being spent at the lake with time to braid. I'm wanting to make a pair of reins, so I bought some round leather to use as the core. My plans are to use 8 strands, the core for the reins is 7/8 inch and the romal core is 1 inch. I'm I correct that my strands should be 1/8 inch wide? My other question is when I cut the roo hide how wide should I make that first cut? I have the Gail Hought books and she says 1 1/2 inch wide then stretch it, then make your second cuts (which how wide would that second cut be since it would then need beveled)???? I've watched Knotheads video on how to cut, and it looks like he cuts something close to the final size on the first cut. Also have watched Youtube video showing how to cut roo and again from what I could tell it looked like that first cut was not very wide. So could ya all give me an idea of how wide I should make that first cut so that I'm not wasting hide??? I have the austie cutter and I don't think it would even go 1 1/2 inch wide, I also have the cutter/beveler that Beven got to me so if that helps with knowing what tools I have to come up with an answer.....oh ya I still have no Splitter so inless you think the reins will turn out really cruddy without splitting the roo I don't plan on splitting it.

Thanks for any help, greatly appriciate it in advance. Annette

[KnotHead]

For a splitter out in the camp area, I use a piece of 1/2 inch wood about 12 inches x 12 inches with a notch filed out on top at the thickness I want the lace to be at and then use a utility blade with tape or one that has a handle on it, and a small bench vise that can mount to any picnic table or a table in the RV or whatever to split with. Just an idea for you to use. Not splitting the lace will give you an inconsistent thickness which can cause some issues with the braiding and how it turns out.

I usually cut my rough cut at 1/4inch wide depending on what the project is. If I need 1/8 strings I will cut at 1/4 inch. You can of coarse cut your rough cut as wide as you want to, or what you're comfortable with. Some will rough cut at 3/8 inch wide and some will rough cut at 1/2 inch wide. It's up to you how wide you want to rough cut. The 1/4 inch rough cut I do will allow for me to bevel to the 1/8 inch width pretty precisely. But again it is what you are comfortable with doing and where your skill set is. Like anything else, prepare yourself for mistakes and lots of practice.

B...

Edited May 12, 2011 by KnotHead

[acox4t4]

Great well that gives me a idea of where to start, and since I should leave myself room for those mistakes I'll go with 3/8 inch. I wasn't sure how narrow the roo would get when I stretch it, so didn't want to cut it all out and then find out that once I put the stretch on it that it would be to narrow for my project.

Thanks again. Hopefully by the middle of June I will have a pair of reins to post a picture of.

[lilpep]

Acox

i agree with Brian 100%, Just my two cents i found that depending on the hide i will adjust the width of my rough cut. some hides have more stretch than others so i will cut a tester strand and try out how much stratch is in the hide. usually the outer end parts have more stretch than the inner parts of the hide even after you trim it, if the hide is not a great one. a great hide will have very little stretch but they all have some. so try it out first.

hope this helps

[KnotHead]

The important thing about stretching is that you don't over stretch the lace. This can really cause problems when you go to final cut. Like you say the strands can go narrow. But if you cut your rough cut at 3/8th then the lace wont stretch any narrower than a 1/4 inch wide. If the lace goes below that you still can get a 1/8th inch wide final cut and bevel. You just have to watch your final cuts.

You are right about one thing on my cutting. I rough cut at 1/4 inch because I am getting really good hides. My hides that I buy are not very stretchy at all. So the most stretch I get from a hide will only be about 3/32nds of an inch. I can then go straight to my beveling instead of the 90 cut like some do. I don't know which cutter/beveler you got from Bevan. So I am shooting in the dark on that part with you. After I am done beveling I then will use my splitter and NO you wont loose that much of your bevel by doing it this way. This is just what I am comfortable doing and you don't have to do it this way.

I split my lace last for one reason only. I like to have the material thick enough to bevel with first. I have more material on the surface of my cutter this way making it a bit easier for me to bevel to the size I need and achieving a much cleaner cut & bevel.

Remember, you can always ask questions anytime you like. We are more than glad to help you out as much as we can on the net.

B...

[roo4u]

have you watched bernies youtube vids? i really liked his vid on how to cut up a roo for lace and then stretch it prior to cutting for width....i always cut wider, about an inch id say, then stretch then cut several strands out of it as that creates less waste. i do agree on the splitting, needs to be done...i posted a link a while back for a little wooden splitter, its not hard to make, works great for roo and just uses utility knife blades.

in this vid bernie says he wants to end with 6mm strands so he cuts them at 8 mm then stretches and by the time he bevels it he is down to the size he wants.

[rcsaddles]

Wow, talk about information overload! This is such great info I am really glad to be a part of this. I have cut lots of rawhide lace but am just starting on the roo lace. I cut all my rawhide with the Aussie Strander and love that little tool. I now have the Dene Williams lace cutter and splitter. They are great. Not sure how they will work on rawhide but they are the ticket for roo. I also have a cutter beveller from Bevan. I really like using it to cut my lace to size but honestly, I have not been smart enough to figure out how to make the beveling part work. Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

Brian, thanks for the thoughts on bevel and then split to thinkness, I would not have thought of that. I also really enjoy seeing your work here Brian.

Annette, I have learned that you can make most of the tools you need for preparing your lace to braid. Tracy's idea for the splitter has been done by many people and works very well. I just happened into a deal on the Dene Williams splitter that I could not pass up. Otherwise, I have a couple of homemade splitters that work just fine.

Once again, thanks to everyone that puts in to this forum.

[KnotHead]

I thought I would share these photos with you all on the way I bevel and how it turns out for me. This is just the method I use and I get good results for myself. This is what I am comfortable with and doing on a regular basis. The beveling part is where I believe every braider has their way of accomplishing the goal. This is just one way I use and I have been using it for awhile now and like the results that I get.

From left to right in the photo. The blue is beveled but not split. On both, I beveled at 30degrees. On the right(Black) this one is beveled and split. As you can see, the only thing that is removed is the left over surface that I used to bevel the lace on.

The black did not loose the bevel at all. It is still a 30 degree bevel on both sides of the lace. The black lace will braid just fine and provide me with the results that I am looking for when I braid.

I hope that this will give a better picture of what I mean by bevel first, then split the lace. This is just one method to use and this is the one I like to use and am comfortable in doing.

Brian, thanks for the thoughts on bevel and then split to thinkness, I would not have thought of that. I also really enjoy seeing your work here Brian.

Thank you John and thank you very much for the very kind comment.

I hope that this will help out a few braiders in their path.

B...

[Bevan]

]

My plans are to use 8 strands, the core for the reins is 7/8 inch and the romal core is 1 inch. I'm I correct that my strands should be 1/8 inch wide?

[

Gday Annette

Now just to be sure did you say and mean your core for the reins is 7/8 of an inch dia ???? that is about 22mm dia if so to cover a core that is that big you would have to have 32 strands at 3mm or 1/8 which ever you fancy !!!

but if your core is about the 22mm mark and you want to use 8 strings to cover it you should be looking at 12,375 mm or about the 1/2 inch mark .

Cheers for now will post you some stuff soon

Bevan

www.bwrwhips.com

ps

Bryan

I made the cutter beveler that Bernie uses in the you tube post

[entiendo]

So many ways to cut roo!!!

Use gail's book to find out what you need to cover your core. 8 strands1/8" calls for 3/16 core. I only know that because I use it a lot and did the math long ago. Oh 8 strands 3/32" takes 1/8" core, that one was given to me and I use it the most. I hate doing the math and try to avoid it at all costs. Beven seems not to mind though so pick his brain as much as you can and write it down. Google will change his aussie mm measurements into inches for ya. The only thing I would suggest is you not cut your strings any larger than 1/8". Kangaroo is just to beautiful and strong to cut larger than that in my opinion. The smaller, the more detailed, the more beautiful. Of course this is only my opinion.

[roo4u]

why are you using such a big core? remember that on top of that you are adding your braiding so that seems a bit big to me...most braiders use sewing machine belting for the cores and it comes in 1/4, 5/16 and 3/8 sizes. so you would be better off using one of the two smaller sizes for the rein body and then the next size up for the romal....so say 1/4 for reins then 5/16 for romal. i think if you go much bigger than those sizes the reins will be too bulky and hard to handle. i have fairly big hands but would not like handling reins 1" or more in diameter.

im still waiting to hear back from those braiders. hopefully they will call me and let me know if they are willing to help out a couple of rookies. i will let you know when i hear back

[acox4t4]

Ok a picture will hopefully clear things up. I'm using the belting, I took a string and put it around the belting to come up with 7/8 for the one and 1 inch for the other. Maybe I don't know how to read a tape measure or something but I thought that you took the whole way around and then divided by number of lace you want to use to come up with how wide the lace should be. LOL I just might need to get me one of those digital tape measure or something.

Hahaha I even used tape measure with mm just for Bevan.

Roo4u I crack myself up, I tried like 20 times to make one of those splitters from that post you sent me and I just don't have the wood tools to get a nice clean even cut at an angle. Since I need a splitter really bad I just need to take the pattern to a wood worker that has the right tools and have them do it. Its darn embarrasing hearing how easy it is to make, or seeing Knotheads easy splitter by using a piece of wood with a notch in it and just a blade and then seeing him split his roo so easy. I'll get there though, I'm not giving up. Watching Knotheads video and how he talks about blood sacrifice I'm kinda suprised I still have my fingers since so far I've been pretty bad at this hobbie. It's kinda like golf though, even when ya shank it in the woods its fun hitting the ball.

Thanks for the help, you all are great.

[rawhide1]

I must admit I thought wow those are some big reins. But each to their own. It turns out I thought ya were talking the diameter(across) of the core when ya were talking about the circumference(around) of it. Now it makes sense!! Ya dont have monster hands!! Looking forward to seeing the finished product.

Mike

[roo4u]

whew....ya circumference.....ya had us all scared..lol you do measure around to get number of strands but core measurements are usually listed in diameter. well my lil splitter is not nice even or clean...its a wreck...but it works. i would love to buy a nice one but just too much money...

[KnotHead]

Ok a picture will hopefully clear things up. I'm using the belting, I took a string and put it around the belting to come up with 7/8 for the one and 1 inch for the other. Maybe I don't know how to read a tape measure or something but I thought that you took the whole way around and then divided by number of lace you want to use to come up with how wide the lace should be. LOL I just might need to get me one of those digital tape measure or something.

Hahaha I even used tape measure with mm just for Bevan.

Roo4u I crack myself up, I tried like 20 times to make one of those splitters from that post you sent me and I just don't have the wood tools to get a nice clean even cut at an angle. Since I need a splitter really bad I just need to take the pattern to a wood worker that has the right tools and have them do it. Its darn embarrasing hearing how easy it is to make, or seeing Knotheads easy splitter by using a piece of wood with a notch in it and just a blade and then seeing him split his roo so easy. I'll get there though, I'm not giving up. Watching Knotheads video and how he talks about blood sacrifice I'm kinda suprised I still have my fingers since so far I've been pretty bad at this hobbie. It's kinda like golf though, even when ya shank it in the woods its fun hitting the ball.

Thanks for the help, you all are great.

Trust me, I did not get there easily. It may look easy. But I have done a lot of practice and put some time into learning it. I do have this to say about the blood sacrifice. I don't care who you are in the braiding world. You will give up some of that precious blood at one time or another for this art and craft. Some where, at some time you will nick yourself, or cut yourself. This only happens when you're pushing yourself beyond the tired point though. That's the only times I have done that. It all comes down to paying attention real close to what your doing and how you have your benches setup.

I admit that the piece of wood and a blade is kind of archaic to most. But it does work when you need to split and you're not in your shop with a good one. LOL...

I wish you all the best in your journey with leather braiding and keep practicing. Because you can only get better at it.

B...

[acox4t4]

Well how is it looking so far?? First cut done on all 3 hides cut at 3/8 inch.

Is those scrap pieces used for anything?? Do ya continue to cut lace all the way to the middle. As you can see I stopped once it was getting to be pretty tight,

Will stretch then do the hard part. I'll try and take pic's of how I got the cutter and beveler set up so that if someone sees me doing it wrong will be able to give me some tips. Expecially with the bevel, for some reason the lace wants to fold up even with me pushing down on it to try and keep it from folding up. But maybe with me starting out with wider lace that might help. We will see. Just wanted to post pic's of what I have so far to show how the process is going.

Thanks

Annette

[KnotHead]

Well so far, all appears to be going just as it should with the rough cutting.

B...

[roo4u]

you can get a bunch more smaller lace outta those pieces....looks pretty good...i think you have been psyching yourself out...and just needed to get started!

[Bevan]

Well how is it looking so far?? First cut done on all 3 hides cut at 3/8 inch.

Is those scrap pieces used for anything?? Do ya continue to cut lace all the way to the middle. As you can see I stopped once it was getting to be pretty tight,

Will stretch then do the hard part. I'll try and take pic's of how I got the cutter and beveler set up so that if someone sees me doing it wrong will be able to give me some tips. Expecially with the bevel, for some reason the lace wants to fold up even with me pushing down on it to try and keep it from folding up. But maybe with me starting out with wider lace that might help. We will see. Just wanted to post pic's of what I have so far to show how the process is going.

Annette

Gday Annette

I have taken 5minutes or so of video tonight about setting the beveler up for beveling and will try and post it on youtube tomorrow night , if all goes well I will sent you and Joe a link

When I rough cut my lace I normally end up with a piece about the size of a bike seat left over , when the turns get a bit tight , i just cut the tight curve out to make it abit smoother to go around , then with the bike seat size left over I use a Tandy lacemaker and get a heap more lace that has very littlle stretch in it because it is in the middle of the roos back

Sorry you are having a hard time with the beveling side of the cutter , hopefully this video will help you sort it out

Cheers

Bevan

www.wbrwhips.com

Edited May 17, 2011 by Bevan

[KnotHead]

Bevan. I do the same thing as you do with my left over piece. I thought at one time that it would a crazy thing to do. But seeing you do the same thing with yours, I am now a bit more relaxed about it. Thanks for that post.

B...

[acox4t4]

Here are some more pictures of the next step that I took. I made a straight cut, trying to cut off the wavey and taking the lace down to 1/4 inch. So I guess I'm ready to bevel? My hands begin to shake at the thought of it. Is all still looking ok at this point? Bevan does it look like I'm setting up the tool right for the straight cut?? For some reason the side rolls up on me sometimes causing some spots to not look good and straight but hopefully if I can figure out how to bevel correctly then those spots I'm sure will be cut off (hopefully). I'm down to 1/4 inch wide, my goal is atleast 1/8 inch wide when all said and done.

Bevan thanks for taking the time to video tape for us. Greatly appriciated !!!

Edited May 18, 2011 by acox4t4

[acox4t4]

Here are some more pictures of the next step that I took. I made a straight cut, trying to cut off the wavey and taking the lace down to 1/4 inch. So I guess I'm ready to bevel? My hands begin to shake at the thought of it. Is all still looking ok at this point? Bevan does it look like I'm setting up the tool right for the straight cut?? For some reason the side rolls up on me sometimes causing some spots to not look good and straight but hopefully if I can figure out how to bevel correctly then those spots I'm sure will be cut off (hopefully). I'm down to 1/4 inch wide, my goal is atleast 1/8 inch wide when all said and done.

Bevan thanks for taking the time to video tape for us. Greatly appriciated !!!

[acox4t4]

Sorry didn't mean to post it twice.

Also wanted to mention to everyone the June 2011 Western Horseman has story on Dan Fowler and rawhide braiding.

[Bevan]

Here are some more pictures of the next step that I took. I made a straight cut, trying to cut off the wavey and taking the lace down to 1/4 inch. So I guess I'm ready to bevel? My hands begin to shake at the thought of it. Is all still looking ok at this point? Bevan does it look like I'm setting up the tool right for the straight cut?? For some reason the side rolls up on me sometimes causing some spots to not look good and straight but hopefully if I can figure out how to bevel correctly then those spots I'm sure will be cut off (hopefully). I'm down to 1/4 inch wide, my goal is atleast 1/8 inch wide when all said and done.

Bevan thanks for taking the time to video tape for us. Greatly appriciated !!!

Gday mate

your set up and technnique for the lace resizeing looks good

Your fence on the bevelling set up looks way to high , have a look at this link

I hope this will clear a few things up for you ,

Cheers

Bevan

www.bwrwhips.com

[rcsaddles]

This video made the difference for me. Now I know how to use this wonderful tool. My lace cutting went from ok to wow. Bevan, thank you ever so much, mate.