Needle Cutting Thread On Backstitch

[George B]

Hey All,

I've been using an Artisan toro-4000 for about 2 years now, haven't had too many problems, just had to learn the machine and make some adjustments.

Maintenance is done at least once a month, cleaning' tightening and oiling. In the last couple of days it has started cutting the thread on backstitches or when I stitch over to lock the thread.

I have had to take out stitching on belts and holsters way too many times due to the thread cutting at the finish.

Changed the needle 3 times, same result. Cleaned, oiled and checked all the settings, still cutting thread.

I use a 794 size 200 needle, 277 thread above and 207 below and have even tried new thread, same results.

What am I missing?

Do I need to adjust my tension differently than I have in the past?

Any advice I can try would be appreciated.

Thanks, George

[Ferg]

Wow! I must be using a lot of oil. I check my machine every time I am ready to do any sewing. Any surface that appears to be the slightest bit dry gets oiled. Machine has a metal pan to catch drips of oil.

I watched a lady sewing chair covers. She started the machine about 1/2" (3 stitches) away from the actual edge of material. She done three reverse stitches from the start then sewed forward over those.

I have been doing that and find that I have less problem with cutting the thread. Larger needles, such as you are using, probably compound the problem.

Are your stitches tight inside the leather layer or layers? If machine is sewing with insufficient tension the thread that was first applied to the needle hole may get caught when you reverse.

You do hold onto the thread that is in the needle when you begin your stitching I assume.

ferg

Hey All,

I've been using an Artisan toro-4000 for about 2 years now, haven't had too many problems, just had to learn the machine and make some adjustments.

Maintenance is done at least once a month, cleaning' tightening and oiling. In the last couple of days it has started cutting the thread on backstitches or when I stitch over to lock the thread.

I have had to take out stitching on belts and holsters way too many times due to the thread cutting at the finish.

Changed the needle 3 times, same result. Cleaned, oiled and checked all the settings, still cutting thread.

I use a 794 size 200 needle, 277 thread above and 207 below and have even tried new thread, same results.

What am I missing?

Do I need to adjust my tension differently than I have in the past?

Any advice I can try would be appreciated.

Thanks, George

Edited July 24, 2011 by 50 years leather

[Art]

Hi George,

Like me, you like to use small needles whenever possible, but your needle is adequate for your thread, but might be a bit small for backstitching. Check your needle and make sure it is in correctly, usually groove on the left, scarf on the right, thread from left to right. If that is ok, then put a new needle in, sometimes there is the smallest burr on the shaft and if the fit is tight, bingo, remember with the small size needle (and hence the thread groove is correspondingly small) threads are really cramped in there. Going to a 230 or 250 might solve your problems.

Art

Hey All,

I've been using an Artisan toro-4000 for about 2 years now, haven't had too many problems, just had to learn the machine and make some adjustments.

Maintenance is done at least once a month, cleaning' tightening and oiling. In the last couple of days it has started cutting the thread on backstitches or when I stitch over to lock the thread.

I have had to take out stitching on belts and holsters way too many times due to the thread cutting at the finish.

Changed the needle 3 times, same result. Cleaned, oiled and checked all the settings, still cutting thread.

I use a 794 size 200 needle, 277 thread above and 207 below and have even tried new thread, same results.

What am I missing?

Do I need to adjust my tension differently than I have in the past?

Any advice I can try would be appreciated.

Thanks, George

[George B]

Wow! I must be using a lot of oil. I check my machine every time I am ready to do any sewing. Any surface that appears to be the slightest bit dry gets oiled. Machine has a metal pan to catch drips of oil.

I watched a lady sewing chair covers. She started the machine about 1/2" (3 stitches) away from the actual edge of material. She done three reverse stitches from the start then sewed forward over those.

I have been doing that and find that I have less problem with cutting the thread. Larger needles, such as you are using, probably compound the problem.

Are your stitches tight inside the leather layer or layers? If machine is sewing with insufficient tension the thread that was first applied to the needle hole may get caught when you reverse.

You do hold onto the thread that is in the needle when you begin your stitching I assume.

ferg

Hello ferg, I oil every night when I'm done and the shop is cleaned up, quick check and blow out the shuttle area. Once a month is the big one.

I didn't have this trouble before, always layed down nice backstitching. Everything is the same on the machine as before.

I'm wondering if the oil in the thread can dry out. I have an oil pot I can try to see if that helps.

Yes, I hold my stitches tight up to about 6 to 10 stitches and when I backstitch or overstitch I check the tightness of the first stitch.

[Wizcrafts]

George;

What thread is being cut when you back-stitch?

1. Top thread
2. Bobbin thread
3. Stitches already in material

Here are some more questions and related mechanical things to check:

1. Are the back-stitches going exactly into the same holes as existing forward stitches?
2. What size stitch length are you using now, where the threads are cutting?
3. Is this a different stitch length than before?
4. Has there been a recent jam in the bobbin case or shuttle? If so, the timing may have changed. Check the timing.
5. Check your timing of the needle in reverse. It the needle is in a much different position in reverse than in forward. With a large stitch length, this can cause the pick-up point to split the top thread loop, instead of going inside it.
6. See if the check spring has sufficient range of motion to keep the top thread slack tight, until the needle fully penetrates the leather, in both forward and reverse mode. Adjust it for more motion if necessary (to reduce slack top thread). Don't go too far down, or the loops won't form in the needle!
7. Is there sufficient top pressure on the presser feet to prevent the material from lifting as the needle begins to ascend? If not, increase the spring pressure.
8. Check the timing of the feed dog, if you are using one. It must move in sync with the needle.
9. After resetting the timing, or not, go over all screws on moving parts to ensure they are as tight as possible.
10. Oil the moving parts again. Try using thread lube, or lubricated thread.

Let us know if any of this helps.

[Bobby hdflame]

George;

What thread is being cut when you back-stitch?

1. Top thread
2. Bobbin thread
3. Stitches already in material

Here are some more questions and related mechanical things to check:

1. Are the back-stitches going exactly into the same holes as existing forward stitches?
2. What size stitch length are you using now, where the threads are cutting?
3. Is this a different stitch length than before?
4. Has there been a recent jam in the bobbin case or shuttle? If so, the timing may have changed. Check the timing.
5. Check your timing of the needle in reverse. It the needle is in a much different position in reverse than in forward. With a large stitch length, this can cause the pick-up point to split the top thread loop, instead of going inside it.
6. See if the check spring has sufficient range of motion to keep the top thread slack tight, until the needle fully penetrates the leather, in both forward and reverse mode. Adjust it for more motion if necessary (to reduce slack top thread). Don't go too far down, or the loops won't form in the needle!
7. Is there sufficient top pressure on the presser feet to prevent the material from lifting as the needle begins to ascend? If not, increase the spring pressure.
8. Check the timing of the feed dog, if you are using one. It must move in sync with the needle.
9. After resetting the timing, or not, go over all screws on moving parts to ensure they are as tight as possible.
10. Oil the moving parts again. Try using thread lube, or lubricated thread.

Let us know if any of this helps.

Wiz,

I have the same problem with my Highlead, but only when using a leather point needle. I figured it was just because it was a sharp point. I see other people using leather machines backstitch with no problems, so I'm wondering if I've got something a little out of time. My back stitching seems to be just a little off center of the hole. How do you check and adjust reverse timing. Maybe that's my problem.

I use a #22 leather point needle with #138 thread and a #24 with #207. Both threads are bonded poly.

I've just started leaving a long tail of thread when I get through with a project and use a hand needle to backstitch about 4 stitches and then tie off with a knot on the bottom. This is just too time consuming. Is there a better way?

Thanks.

[Wizcrafts]

Wiz,

I have the same problem with my Highlead, but only when using a leather point needle. I figured it was just because it was a sharp point. I see other people using leather machines backstitch with no problems, so I'm wondering if I've got something a little out of time. My back stitching seems to be just a little off center of the hole. How do you check and adjust reverse timing. Maybe that's my problem.

I use a #22 leather point needle with #138 thread and a #24 with #207. Both threads are bonded poly.

I've just started leaving a long tail of thread when I get through with a project and use a hand needle to backstitch about 4 stitches and then tie off with a knot on the bottom. This is just too time consuming. Is there a better way?

Thanks.

I don't know about Highlead machines, but Art does. You should ask him if he knows how to adjust the backstitch position. Or, ask the dealer from whom you bought the machine. Alternately, check the manual for details about adjustments.

I backstitch on a Cobra Class 4 at work, using a Schmetz #23 leather S point needle (#138 or #207 thread), and there is no ratting of the previous stitches. It sews perfectly into the holes in reverse.

[Bobby hdflame]

I don't know about Highlead machines, but Art does. You should ask him if he knows how to adjust the backstitch position. Or, ask the dealer from whom you bought the machine. Alternately, check the manual for details about adjustments.

I backstitch on a Cobra Class 4 at work, using a Schmetz #23 leather S point needle (#138 or #207 thread), and there is no ratting of the previous stitches. It sews perfectly into the holes in reverse.

OK, Thanks. I thought maybe from reading your post it was something easy.

That Cobra looks like a nice machine.

[Les No6]

Hi are you using leather point needles? You should be using canvas point if you tie of on the machine. Leather point needles have cutting points like a sharp edged spear and will cut your thread, you can sew leathe rperfectly well with canvas point. Leather point needles are for higher quality items where the thread is tied of by hand.

[Bobby hdflame]

Hi are you using leather point needles? You should be using canvas point if you tie of on the machine. Leather point needles have cutting points like a sharp edged spear and will cut your thread, you can sew leathe rperfectly well with canvas point. Leather point needles are for higher quality items where the thread is tied of by hand.

That's exactly what I'm using. I thought I needed leather point. Seems like I tried some round points with my machine and they didn't sew very well. I'll give them another shot and see how it goes. I'm also thinking that my reverse timing might be a little off on my machine because it doesn't seem to hit the previous holes dead center when I reverse stitch.

Thanks for the suggestion.