Needle Cutting Thread On Backstitch

[Ferg]

LesNo6,

You are giving some tainted information there. Leather point needles are for stitching leather because they cut/pierce the leather so the remainder of the needle and thread can do it's thing. Round point needles are for fabric, canvas, and vinyls etc. If the machine is perfectly timed I would bet the needle will return into exactly the same hole without cutting the thread.

ferg

That's exactly what I'm using. I thought I needed leather point. Seems like I tried some round points with my machine and they didn't sew very well. I'll give them another shot and see how it goes. I'm also thinking that my reverse timing might be a little off on my machine because it doesn't seem to hit the previous holes dead center when I reverse stitch.

Thanks for the suggestion.

Edited August 14, 2011 by 50 years leather

[Bobby hdflame]

LesNo6,

You are giving some tainted information there. Leather point needles are for stitching leather because they cut/pierce the leather so the remainder of the needle and thread can do it's thing. Round point needles are for fabric, canvas, and vinyls etc. If the machine is perfectly timed I would bet the needle will return into exactly the same hole without cutting the thread.

ferg

I know that when I used round point before, I would get skipped stitches and was told that the needle hole was too tight to let the thread form a loop. Since I switched to leather point needles it sews much better except for when I try to backstitch...I cut the thread.

I think it's more of a timing setup issue with my machine.

I'll contact my machine guy.

[Les No6]

Yes tainted only because tying off by hand is the correct practice, leather point needles have a cutting point stitching over existing stitches there's no hole to cut only a hole filled with fabric (thread) a sharp leather point will cut the thread hence the need for canvas point, timing will only reduce the incidence of cutting the thread clean through many times the thread will only be cut part the way through which will result in premature failure. I did come across this many years ago while visiting a factory that produced dog collars and leads they were replacing the aging Singer 45K's with reconditioned Adler 205's with pneumaticmotors and stitch counters auto reverse and foot lift, I had a play with one(pneumatic motor are truly amazing best I've ever come across) and noticed the it had a canvas point needle when I asked about this I was told that the company that supplied the machine said that canvas point must be used on reversing machine's, I knew the company that supplied the machine and questioned them on this fact on my next visit and was told what I say above (obvious really, the term CUTTING point a dead giveaway) and canvas point will sew leather perfectly well have tried it on many different machine's with no problems cant see the Torro being any different you might have to use a larger needle on some make's of machine. Also you shouldn't need to keep tightening anything you may have moved something out of position.

LesNo6,

You are giving some tainted information there. Leather point needles are for stitching leather because they cut/pierce the leather so the remainder of the needle and thread can do it's thing. Round point needles are for fabric, canvas, and vinyls etc. If the machine is perfectly timed I would bet the needle will return into exactly the same hole without cutting the thread.

ferg

[Ferg]

Now, you see you have your method and I have mine. Yours works for you and mine for me. I have tied off the thread and I have glued the tips with super glue. Some folks burn the ends. For you to say that tying off by hand is the correct practice simply is not necessarily true.

I will continue to use the leather needles no matter if I reverse or not. I agree that you can sew leather with a round point IF you use an oversize needle. Personally I don't like a thread hole that I can drive a truck through. Simply like what I get with a leather needle. I am glad you like the round point but don't try to convince me that your way is the best, it just works for you.

ferg

Yes tainted only because tying off by hand is the correct practice, leather point needles have a cutting point stitching over existing stitches there's no hole to cut only a hole filled with fabric (thread) a sharp leather point will cut the thread hence the need for canvas point, timing will only reduce the incidence of cutting the thread clean through many times the thread will only be cut part the way through which will result in premature failure. I did come across this many years ago while visiting a factory that produced dog collars and leads they were replacing the aging Singer 45K's with reconditioned Adler 205's with pneumaticmotors and stitch counters auto reverse and foot lift, I had a play with one(pneumatic motor are truly amazing best I've ever come across) and noticed the it had a canvas point needle when I asked about this I was told that the company that supplied the machine said that canvas point must be used on reversing machine's, I knew the company that supplied the machine and questioned them on this fact on my next visit and was told what I say above (obvious really, the term CUTTING point a dead giveaway) and canvas point will sew leather perfectly well have tried it on many different machine's with no problems cant see the Torro being any different you might have to use a larger needle on some make's of machine. Also you shouldn't need to keep tightening anything you may have moved something out of position.

[Cobra Steve]

Hi George. There are a couple of other things you might want to consider. First, make sure that there are no burrs anywhere, especially the point of the hook. Check the timing as well. Even if the machine sews forward, it doesn't mean that the machine is in time. Make sure that the needle does not touch the center foot, the feed dog, or the point of the hook. Call me if you need me. 1-866-962-9880. Thanks, Steve

[Les No6]

Sorry I'm a third generation harness maker my methods haven't change since the advent of sewing machines, sewing machines use a lock stitch which will run (come undone) if not tied off i.e. stitch back over the thread to lock it off, hand sewing superior to machine will not run and results in a higher quality and much much stronger finish. In fact at one time to tie off on the machine was so unthinkable (let's not mention super glue) that sewing machines for this work didn't include reverse. I don't use round point, No6 needles don't come in that flavour and I'm a craftsman so the extra 5mins to tie off by hand isn't an issue quality is, ask any harness maker, saddler. Not all machines need a heavier needle when using canvas point on leather some don't mind. Fact is fact tying off by hand is best and sewing over existing stitches the needle is passing through a hole filled with material (thread) using a cutting point(leather point) will cut thread the smaller the needle for the gage of thread the tighter the thread is in the hole the more likely the thread will be cut don't know how I can explain any simpler just common sense to me.

[jack523]

I know this does not pertain to the breaking thread issue, but i have had a problem finding a good course for needle supplier. I bought an Alder 204-374 from a policeman in NY, it used to belong to Wiz. I used Campbell Bosworth and they can't get the Schmetz needles 794 system. It will be the middle of next month before my order of #25 needles come in.

Does anyone have different needle suppliers?

[Luke Hatley]

I know this does not pertain to the breaking thread issue, but i have had a problem finding a good course for needle supplier. I bought an Alder 204-374 from a policeman in NY, it used to belong to Wiz. I used Campbell Bosworth and they can't get the Schmetz needles 794 system. It will be the middle of next month before my order of #25 needles come in.

Does anyone have different needle suppliers?

I get the Schmetz needles from Weavers...............

[Leather Guru]

Hello Boys,

I've been sewing for 30 years on all types of machines and I must agree with LES NO6 . If you want your project to be top quality and beautiful & strong , bite the bullet and back sew by hand . After sewing try to hide the threads to the inside of the project or between the seams .

Or , try back stitching manually (not using reverse ) and look to where you place the needle in the previously stitched holes . This only takes slightly more time and you will never mess up your project . So you ask why have reverse ?

The photo is of some work sewn by machine and finished by hand . When you get used to this finishing it goes quick and you won't have to be ashamed by doing shoddy work or undoing your stitching .

[Bobby hdflame]

Hello Boys,

I've been sewing for 30 years on all types of machines and I must agree with LES NO6 . If you want your project to be top quality and beautiful & strong , bite the bullet and back sew by hand . After sewing try to hide the threads to the inside of the project or between the seams .

Or , try back stitching manually (not using reverse ) and look to where you place the needle in the previously stitched holes . This only takes slightly more time and you will never mess up your project . So you ask why have reverse ?

The photo is of some work sewn by machine and finished by hand . When you get used to this finishing it goes quick and you won't have to be ashamed by doing shoddy work or undoing your stitching .

The belt looks nice, but I've never seen or noticed that little single stitch off the sides. Could you explain why you do this?

So far, I've been finishing of by hand because my upholstery machine is just not made for the thickness of leather that I'm asking it to sew. I have a Cobra on order now and will see how it does with using the reverse. If I still need to finish by hand to get the best finish, then that's definitely what I'll do.

I'm glad to see differing opinions on here. I think the conversation is a healthy way for us noobies to learn and try to see what works for us. I'm looking forward to getting my new machine.