Please Explain The Use Of Linen Thread...

[JimC]

I have been sewing a long time but am venturing into heavy work. (my usual threads over the years are Poly 69 and 135) ...but I am curious about Linen. In what situations is it better that nylon or poly. Thanks.

Jim

[Wizcrafts]

Linen thread predates both nylon and polyester thread. It was used to sew parachutes, awnings, sails, shoes, saddles, holsters, golf bags, briefcases, rifle cases, luggage, etc. The most famous brand of linen thread is Barbour's Irish Linen Thread. Formerly made in Ireland, the company was dismembered and its assets sold to Coats and Clark. Barbour's linen thread is glazed with a light weight coating that holds the twisted strands together. It is produced in standard left and custom right twist and is sold in one pound spools.

While it is possible to use linen thread on a modern sewing machine, it is not really that strong unless you run it through a wax pot on the way to the needle. The wax solidifies inside the leather after a while. This permanently locks each stitch in place. Waxed linen thread is rot resistant and is able to remain functional even if one or more bottom stitches are worn down, as in the soles of shoes.

Almost every hand sewn leather project is done using waxed linen thread. 6 cord waxed linen thread is incredibly strong and long lasting.

It is difficult to sew waxed linen with a regular industrial sewing machine. Not impossible, just difficult. The wax clogs the guides and tensioners and the eye of the needle. It must be sewn at very slow speeds, with a larger needle than otherwise would be used.Six cord waxed linen thread would probably need a #28 or #30 needle to feed it and form a loop. Needles that big are not available for normal industrial machines. Only the biggest harness or shoe stitchers have needles that big.

If you want to sew regularly with waxed linen thread, you should get a Union Lockstitch or Campbell stitcher, both of which use barbed needles and stabbing awls. If chain stitching is acceptable for your work (bottom stitches not visible), a Puritan machine will do nicely, at a lower cost than the ULS or Campbells. They have wax pots for liquid wax and accept huge, barbed needles, and use awls.

[benlilly1]

Thanks Wizcrafts for the information on linen thread. I needed that. Thanks for asking about linen JimC!

[Hilly]

Wonderful explanation, Wizcrafts!

Very in depth and detailed! Thanks!

[Lurker]

Thanks for the history, that was interesting

IMO though, linen thread is outdated. The main thing it's good for is that it doesn't cut your fingers up as easy as synthetic thread does when handstitching. It also can "fluff up" a bit once sewn and looks a bit prettier. Oh...and if you like to pull on your thread ridiculously hard the linen will break before your leather does so you don't end up with two holes becoming one.

I like my synthetic thread and I still do use it for all my handstitching...I just wear a bit of suede on my fingers to protect them. That's when I remember. Thread cuts are way worse than papercuts.

[MADMAX22]

I wouldnt say linen is outdated by any means. Ive never been able to break my 6cord barbours thread by hand. Granted you need a good wax/rosin mix to hand stitch with it IMHO. All of my projects that I hand stitched from several years ago with it are still going strong.

[Wizcrafts]

I have had to repair very old rifle cases and golf bags for collectors, or people restoring items from the parents or Grand Parents. These items were sewn on Puritan chainstitch machines, using 6 cord waxed linen thread. Some of these items were over 60 years old. The stitches were fine; the leather need patching!

My Union Lockstitch machine likes 4 through 6 cord left twist linen thread. But, after buying a bargain brand once, I recommend only buying Barbour's Irish Linen Thread. It costs more, but it's well worth the money.

[KellyJ]

Hi fellas -

Where can I get Barbour's Irish Linen Thread? I've been looking around and no one seems to have it anymore. (My apologies if this has been answered many times... I am really just starting out with leatherworking!)

Love this site, by the way. Such a great group of people. And I've learned so much!

Kelly

[Wizcrafts]

Hi fellas -

Where can I get Barbour's Irish Linen Thread? I've been looking around and no one seems to have it anymore. (My apologies if this has been answered many times... I am really just starting out with leatherworking!)

Love this site, by the way. Such a great group of people. And I've learned so much!

Kelly

I bought mine from Campbell-Bosworth, in Texas. Here is their catalog page with linen thread.

[Art]

Here is their catalog page with Barbour's Linen Thread, although I doubt it is Irish anymore.

Art

I bought mine from Campbell-Bosworth, in Texas. Here is their catalog page with linen thread.

[ramrod]

i don't know how i missed this thread before. what a great bunch of info, wiz. i never knew what i didn't know about linen thread!

not to hijack the OP's thread, but what would be an equivilant thread size (in linen) to #69 polyester?

i'd like to buy some linen thread, but i don't want to be sewing with something the size of rope if i get it wrong.

[Wizcrafts]

i don't know how i missed this thread before. what a great bunch of info, wiz. i never knew what i didn't know about linen thread!

not to hijack the OP's thread, but what would be an equivilant thread size (in linen) to #69 polyester?

i'd like to buy some linen thread, but i don't want to be sewing with something the size of rope if i get it wrong.

I don't know of any such "linen" thread size. The closest organic thread would be 3 or 4 cord glace cotton, with a combined size of 20 or 24.

I have a spool of 4 cord glace cotton, size 24, that looks like it is close to #69 bonded nylon. In comparison, my spools of 4 cord linen thread are closer to #277 bonded thread.

The smallest commercial size of "linen" thread I know about is Barbour's 3 cord. This is about the same thickness as #138, or #207.

Keep in mind that cotton and linen thread need to be waxed to achieve maximum strength.

[ramrod]

i was under the impression that 5 or 6 cord linen was about the same as #69 polyester. i use the polyester exclusively in hand sewing, but, like i said, i'd like to find the same size in linen.

wiz, you're saying that the 3 cord linen is actually LARGER than #69 poly? (if i understand that correctly)

[Wizcrafts]

i was under the impression that 5 or 6 cord linen was about the same as #69 polyester. i use the polyester exclusively in hand sewing, but, like i said, i'd like to find the same size in linen.

wiz, you're saying that the 3 cord linen is actually LARGER than #69 poly? (if i understand that correctly)

Yes, 3 cord linen is larger than #69 bonded nylon, or polyester.

6 cord linen is as thick as bonded #346.

I don't use 3 cord any more, so I can't compare it to my bonded thread. But, when I did use 3 cord Barbour's, it was about the same size as #138 bonded nylon. I used a #1 needle and #1.5 awl to sew with it.

My 4 cord linen is close to the width of my #277 bonded. I'd say is is between #207 and 277. I use a #1.5 or 2 needle with a #2 or 2.5 awl for these threads.

In contrast, I need a #3 needle and #3.5 awl to sew with #346 bonded, or 6 cord linen thread.

[ramrod]

wow! i'm glad i asked. looks like it's 3 cord for hand stitching for me.

thank you, wiz.

[Wizcrafts]

Perhaps there is some confusion as to the width of #69 bonded thread. It is about the thickness of heavy fish line. It's diameter is 0.0115 In

[Wizcrafts]

According to one chart I just read, 3 cord Barbour's linen thread is the equivalent diameter of bonded #207. It needs to be waxed for best hold and lifespan.

[blink1688]

My goodness, thank you for this post. It may be 6 years old but I found it very helpful.

[DJole]

3 hours ago, blink1688 said:

My goodness, thank you for this post. It may be 6 years old but I found it very helpful.

It looks like you are in Ohio, so you can easily get waxed linen thread at Royalwood Ltd., in Mansfield, Ohio.
Website here: https://www.royalwoodltd.com/
I've ordered from them before, with good results. Lots of good color selection!

[SamSeitler]

On 10/21/2011 at 6:08 PM, Wizcrafts said:

Yes, 3 cord linen is larger than #69 bonded nylon, or polyester.

6 cord linen is as thick as bonded #346.

I don't use 3 cord any more, so I can't compare it to my bonded thread. But, when I did use 3 cord Barbour's, it was about the same size as #138 bonded nylon. I used a #1 needle and #1.5 awl to sew with it.

My 4 cord linen is close to the width of my #277 bonded. I'd say is is between #207 and 277. I use a #1.5 or 2 needle with a #2 or 2.5 awl for these threads.

In contrast, I need a #3 needle and #3.5 awl to sew with #346 bonded, or 6 cord linen thread.

Wiz, 

I just purchased a CB3200 to sew leather straps onto heavy canvas backpacks. Everything I make is plastic free, so I don't use polyester thread. Any suggestions on linen thread for this machine?

[SamSeitler]

On 10/11/2017 at 6:27 AM, SamSeitler said:

Wiz, 

I just purchased a CB3200 to sew leather straps onto heavy canvas backpacks. Everything I make is plastic free, so I don't use polyester thread. Any suggestions on linen thread for this machine?

I used 3 cord linen in the CB3200 and it works great. Only downside is that backstitching on the reverse side looks like crap. 

[blink1688]

On 9/19/2017 at 10:24 PM, DJole said:

It looks like you are in Ohio, so you can easily get waxed linen thread at Royalwood Ltd., in Mansfield, Ohio.
Website here: https://www.royalwoodltd.com/
I've ordered from them before, with good results. Lots of good color selection!

Thanks for the tip. I'll check it out and see what they have. Is the pre-waxed thread from them any better than what you get from Tandy?

With Tandy, I've had some bad experiences with pre-waxed thread which has left me a little unsettle -- the 25yrd spools from Tandy have had weird lumps/inconsistencies and weak spots in them on more than one occasion.

I finally got around to ordering a big spool of Barbour's 6-strand and been really happy with it -- it's very consistent takes the wax well. I've been going through quite a bit of thread recently since I was asked to make/repair a few triple-stitch halters which I've done completely saddlestitch. One thing I like about having the unwaxed thread is that I can make the ends taper much better then dye it whatever color I want/need before waxing.

[DJole]

4 hours ago, blink1688 said:

Thanks for the tip. I'll check it out and see what they have. Is the pre-waxed thread from them any better than what you get from Tandy?

With Tandy, I've had some bad experiences with pre-waxed thread which has left me a little unsettle -- the 25yrd spools from Tandy have had weird lumps/inconsistencies and weak spots in them on more than one occasion.

I haven't noticed this with the Royalwood thread, but I don't stitch with it frequently enough to be a good judge of this.