Ecoflow Professional Waterstains

[Spinner]

well what was the verdict on this stuff buy or save my money.. i sure hope this stuff is for real. i want to thank you guys for letting us know what you think of this and all the other stuff on this site.it sure help when you live were leather people are far and few..and no stores that even sells leather products..mahalos again for all your help..

I did end up picking up a bottle of black and a bottle of the matte finish. So far I have only been able to play with it and then took a chance and used it on a full bib. I have to say, it's easy to use, makes a great deep color and buffs to a nice low satin sheen. Penetration is a bit less than I'd like for motorcycle gear but the other test, applying it over two coats of Pro-Oil Black resulted in a very nice color and good penetration to boot. I'll take a picture tomorrow of the bib in the sun. Topped it with Leather Balm with Atom Wax and it's become the color and finish sheen I've been trying to achieve for quite awhile. I'm going to make some vinegroon soon but in the meantime this combination makes for a very nice & durable color system.

Short answer, it's pretty decent stuff and much better than the regular eco-flow products. +1 to Tandy for getting it right.

[hiloboy]

I did end up picking up a bottle of black and a bottle of the matte finish. So far I have only been able to play with it and then took a chance and used it on a full bib. I have to say, it's easy to use, makes a great deep color and buffs to a nice low satin sheen. Penetration is a bit less than I'd like for motorcycle gear but the other test, applying it over two coats of Pro-Oil Black resulted in a very nice color and good penetration to boot. I'll take a picture tomorrow of the bib in the sun. Topped it with Leather Balm with Atom Wax and it's become the color and finish sheen I've been trying to achieve for quite awhile. I'm going to make some vinegroon soon but in the meantime this combination makes for a very nice & durable color system.

Short answer, it's pretty decent stuff and much better than the regular eco-flow products. +1 to Tandy for getting it right.

Mahalos Spinner, for the heads up on this product.. it sounds like what i need.. now do you think it would work if applied with a airbrush?

[Spinner]

Mahalos Spinner, for the heads up on this product.. it sounds like what i need.. now do you think it would work if applied with a airbrush?

Out of the bottle it's a little thick for an airbrush but it is water based so it can be thinned easily. I'd only add as much as you need to to get it to spray, too thin and it will behave like airbrush paint and have no penetration at all, just be a top coat. If the airbrush isn't a necessity, this stuff goes on easily with a soft sponge and I didn't have any lines or gradations in the application. It applies evenly and then you simply let it dry for 5 minutes or so and then buff it. Very little rub off.

[hiloboy]

Out of the bottle it's a little thick for an airbrush but it is water based so it can be thinned easily. I'd only add as much as you need to to get it to spray, too thin and it will behave like airbrush paint and have no penetration at all, just be a top coat. If the airbrush isn't a necessity, this stuff goes on easily with a soft sponge and I didn't have any lines or gradations in the application. It applies evenly and then you simply let it dry for 5 minutes or so and then buff it. Very little rub off.

thanks again for the info.. it sounds like it some pretty good stuff to work with. and if it covers evenly with a sponge that works for me. to get better penetration. and like you said not just set on top like a top coat..if you find anymore ways to use this stuff please share.. ever thing helps..Aloha later's my friend

Edited September 29, 2011 by hiloboy

[Spinner]

thanks again for the info.. it sounds like it some pretty good stuff to work with. and if it covers evenly with a sponge that works for me. to get better penetration. and like you said not just set on top like a top coat..if you find anymore ways to use this stuff please share.. ever thing helps..Aloha later's my friend

Only other suggestion I have is as I mentioned above, hit it with at least one good coat of regular dye first to get a base color down. It will help if the piece gets scratched as the Waterstains only penetrate 1/64" average & 1/32" maximum from what I can tell.

Here's a picture (under shop lights) of the bib I did tonight with the Waterstains. ( Black Pro Oil dye base coat, 2 coats of Black Waterstain, neatsfoot oil, Leather Balm with Atom Wax followed up by Pecard's Weatherproof Motorcycle Dressing). Now to do all of the lacing...

Edited September 29, 2011 by Spinner

[electrathon]

Here was my test. I took two scraps of leather (the same piece cut in two for a fair test). I used Fiebings on one and waterstain on the other , both brown. I applied both in a similar manor, flooding it onto a piece of sheep fur and then wet rubbing it onto the leather. Waited a short time (10 seconds) and wiped it off. Then buffed with clean wool fur scrap. Let them both dry. The color was adequate on the waterstain, but looked more paint-like than the Fiebings. Took out my knife and trimmed along one edge. The waterstain had virtually no penetration, the Fiebings went in about 1/3 of the way. I then took the test pieces and dragged the corner across the sidewalk (about 3 inches). The surface rubbed totally off both test pieces. The waterstain sample had zero color left, all you saw was the leather. The Fiebings piece had 100% color left, just no surface.

My impression: I think this would work on something that was not going to receive any wear, like a wall hanging. I would trust the durability about the same as painting the leather. If you are going to use the item (wallet, holster, seat) I feel you will have far better durability (and better look) from Fiebings dye than you will with the waterstain. I am disappointed, was hopeful.

Aaron

[Leerwerker]

Aaron,

This was not a fair test - one is a dye and the other a stain - they are supposed to be applied differently and with different effect. Neither of these should be wiped off - with the fiebings you should not have had anything to wipe off and with the water based stain, you should apply it until it is even and then also just leave it be. the water based stain probably takes about 50% longer to apply to get the same coverage as you would get with the Fiebings dyes.

Here was my test. ....... I applied both in a similar manor, flooding it onto a piece of sheep fur and then wet rubbing it onto the leather. Waited a short time (10 seconds) and wiped it off. .........

Aaron

[Spinner]

I agree with you both on different points...

The waterstain is meant to be rubbed in continuously with a sponge whereas dyes work best when flooded. However, the results even when properly applied were the same for me.

The Waterstains make for a great top coat and have some very nice color depth, they simply don't penetrate. But, as I mentioned in another post on the forum, I don't believe they are meant to penetrate otherwise Tandy would have called them dyes, not stains.

Stains by definition are a top coat, meant to give more vibrant colors due to larger pigment particles. Due to their larger size though, the pigment fills in on the top and in the pores of the leather but not the leather cells themselves. This causes them to reflect (or absorb) more light making them more vibrant & lightfast but also makes them more vulnerable to abrasion.

A dye uses a colorant with particles much smaller than a stains pigment particles and can therefore penetrate the cell structures. This gives a more durable & transparent color but this also causes to "pick up" some of the leather's color as well which is why black dye applied directly can have a golden tint to it.

I do agree that on something that is subjected to more use and daily wear like a seat or wallet that folks are better off with just straight dye. But items that aren't likely to be abraded as often like a clutch style purse, notebook, bracelets, etc. that the waterstain over a coat or two of dye will provide richer color and the undercoat of dye will provide more visible "protection" as the item endures normal wear.

Long term, I'll likely stick with Pro-Oil Dye for my projects but for those folks that don't have access to it or simply want to be more eco-friendly I think the Waterstains will be a good addition to the eco-flow dyes as a top coat providing the more vibrant & consistent colors they have been seeking. The more I think about it, I am starting to believe the Waterstains are meant to finish off/compliment the Eco-Flow dyes, not replace them...they are simply two different animals in the coloring world.

Edited October 2, 2011 by Spinner

[electrathon]

Aaron,

This was not a fair test - one is a dye and the other a stain - they are supposed to be applied differently and with different effect. Neither of these should be wiped off - with the fiebings you should not have had anything to wipe off and with the water based stain, you should apply it until it is even and then also just leave it be. the water based stain probably takes about 50% longer to apply to get the same coverage as you would get with the Fiebings dyes.

The store manager had a piece he had done that he had not wiped clean, but had applied with a dauber. It looked like poop. The appearance I got by wiping it down was not a bad appearance, almost on par with the Fiebings. The waterstain had far more coverage than the Fiebings did. The Fiebings was more transparent.

I guess my test was trying for a usability test. If the product won't penetrate by design (a definitional difference between stain and dye) then it defiantly is not a product I would use on my work.

Aaron

Edited October 2, 2011 by electrathon

[Leerwerker]

I agree Spinner.

AND, I just started yesterday with my favorite way of testing dyes and finishes: I coated this strip of leather with the new Pro Waterstain and nothing alse, and will now carry it in my pocket with my keys for a few months I will photograph it regularly and record the progress on my BLOG

I do agree that on something that is subjected to more use and daily wear like a seat or wallet that folks are better off with just straight dye. But items that aren't likely to be abraded as often like a clutch style purse, notebook, bracelets, etc. that the waterstain over a coat or two of dye will provide richer color and the undercoat of dye will provide more visible "protection" as the item endures normal wear.

....... The more I think about it, I am starting to believe the Waterstains are meant to finish off/compliment the Eco-Flow dyes, not replace them...they are simply two different animals in the coloring world.