Artisan Toro 3000 Arrived Today!

[Andrew Chee]

I recently decided to get a leather sewing machine cause I wanted to make some bags and hand stitching was just taking too much time. I looked around a lot and didn't find anything that fit what I was looking for and within my budget. I called Cobra Steve in LA and asked about used machines and he had a used Artisan Toro 3000 for sale. The price was actually higher than I had originally budgeted for but the machine would come with the flatbed attachment as well as all the leather presser feet and plates as well. So since I would be getting the machine set up right and based on Steve's reputation here, I decided to go with the purchased. I also wanted to sew some canvas on that machine so I added the blanket feet set to the order as well.

The machine arrived today. It was in very good condition. The machine was supposed to come with all the different presser feet and feed plates as well as the flatbed platform but I guess someone missed those during packing. I gave a call to Steve and he said he'd send them out next week when he's back in CA. This is a bit of a pain but no big deal as long as everything gets sent out next week. Setup was fairly easy and straight forward.

I tried the machine out and it sews very nicely. Just tried some 5oz veg tan leather with some 138 thread and a size 23 needle and after adjusting the tensions a bit, the stitches came out very nicely. All in all, I'm very happy with the machine.

I tried putting in a size 18 needle and some size 69 thread because I wanted to sew some medium weight cotton canvas (duck cloth) for the bag liner (my wife's cheapo home sewing machine can't handle that, especially when I get near zippers). The Toro came with the left toe foot attached. I found that this set up did not sew canvas well at all. I'm thinking it's cause the inner and outer presser feet don't come down far enough. There are times in the stroke where nothing is holding down the canvas so the canvas can wander a bit and the stitch length consistency suffers.

I had ordered the blanket feet set but that was one of the items that was missed in the shipping mishap. Can I sew canvas with the leather feet or do I have to use the blanket feet in order to sew canvas? Also, I was thinking of splitting down some leather to about 1oz thickness and using it as a raw edge binder tape for the canvas liner. Do any of the edge binders sold out there work for this machine? I'm also interested in fold-over (single or double) edge binder attachments as well. Do any work for this type of machine? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

Andrew

[Ferg]

Andrew,

I cannot help you on the binders since I have bought two different ones that simply did not work, sent them back.

Canvas etc. needs to have feet and feed dogs with teeth to move the material. If your machine has smooth fixtures it doesn't work very well at all.

The presser feet can be adjusted, ask Steve about that or "Wiz".

ferg

I recently decided to get a leather sewing machine cause I wanted to make some bags and hand stitching was just taking too much time. I looked around a lot and didn't find anything that fit what I was looking for and within my budget. I called Cobra Steve in LA and asked about used machines and he had a used Artisan Toro 3000 for sale. The price was actually higher than I had originally budgeted for but the machine would come with the flatbed attachment as well as all the leather presser feet and plates as well. So since I would be getting the machine set up right and based on Steve's reputation here, I decided to go with the purchased. I also wanted to sew some canvas on that machine so I added the blanket feet set to the order as well.

The machine arrived today. It was in very good condition. The machine was supposed to come with all the different presser feet and feed plates as well as the flatbed platform but I guess someone missed those during packing. I gave a call to Steve and he said he'd send them out next week when he's back in CA. This is a bit of a pain but no big deal as long as everything gets sent out next week. Setup was fairly easy and straight forward.

I tried the machine out and it sews very nicely. Just tried some 5oz veg tan leather with some 138 thread and a size 23 needle and after adjusting the tensions a bit, the stitches came out very nicely. All in all, I'm very happy with the machine.

I tried putting in a size 18 needle and some size 69 thread because I wanted to sew some medium weight cotton canvas (duck cloth) for the bag liner (my wife's cheapo home sewing machine can't handle that, especially when I get near zippers). The Toro came with the left toe foot attached. I found that this set up did not sew canvas well at all. I'm thinking it's cause the inner and outer presser feet don't come down far enough. There are times in the stroke where nothing is holding down the canvas so the canvas can wander a bit and the stitch length consistency suffers.

I had ordered the blanket feet set but that was one of the items that was missed in the shipping mishap. Can I sew canvas with the leather feet or do I have to use the blanket feet in order to sew canvas? Also, I was thinking of splitting down some leather to about 1oz thickness and using it as a raw edge binder tape for the canvas liner. Do any of the edge binders sold out there work for this machine? I'm also interested in fold-over (single or double) edge binder attachments as well. Do any work for this type of machine? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

Andrew

[Wizcrafts]

A Toro 3000 is a 9" arm 441 clone. As such it uses system 794 needles and only accepts the few presser feet that are made for these machines, in various brand names. I do not know of any folder or binder attachments that exist for a 441 or a clone, unless Juki offers them. You would have to have the attachments custom made, or fitted to a custom attachment holder.

The only presser foot that has any metal across the back is the blanket foot, which has teeth on the bottom. You could buy a couple extra blanket feet and grind off the left toe on one and the right toe on the other, giving you a complete choice of single and double toes, with full metal coverage behind the inside foot.

I have sewn with #69 thread, using a #19 leather point needle, on a 441 clone, but it took a lot of readjusting of tensions and pressures. In reality, these machines should not be used with less than #92 thread, with #138 working a lot more efficiently.

[Andrew Chee]

1321130689[/url]' post='220195']

A Toro 3000 is a 9" arm 441 clone. As such it uses system 794 needles and only accepts the few presser feet that are made for these machines, in various brand names. I do not know of any folder or binder attachments that exist for a 441 or a clone, unless Juki offers them. You would have to have the attachments custom made, or fitted to a custom attachment holder.

The only presser foot that has any metal across the back is the blanket foot, which has teeth on the bottom. You could buy a couple extra blanket feet and grind off the left toe on one and the right toe on the other, giving you a complete choice of single and double toes, with full metal coverage behind the inside foot.

I have sewn with #69 thread, using a #19 leather point needle, on a 441 clone, but it took a lot of readjusting of tensions and pressures. In reality, these machines should not be used with less than #92 thread, with #138 working a lot more efficiently.

I guess using a 92 thread is not that big a deal but were you able to sew something as thin as two layers of medium weight canvas? I notice that the inner presses feet, even when fully down, still have a tiny bit of clearance which isn't a big deal with leather since leather is thicker, but with thin stuff like canvas, there is a point in the stroke where the material is not held down, therefore causing inconsistent stitch length. Also, I notice that with the thin thread, the know was showing up on the two of the material. Turning the top tension way down and the bobbin tension up helped a but but perhaps a thicker thread would be better. The thin thread doesn't really grab the tensioner very well at all.

Anyways, too bad about the binder attachments. I'll see what I can rig up for that.

Andrew

[Wizcrafts]

I guess using a 92 thread is not that big a deal but were you able to sew something as thin as two layers of medium weight canvas? I notice that the inner presses feet, even when fully down, still have a tiny bit of clearance which isn't a big deal with leather since leather is thicker, but with thin stuff like canvas, there is a point in the stroke where the material is not held down, therefore causing inconsistent stitch length. Also, I notice that with the thin thread, the know was showing up on the two of the material. Turning the top tension way down and the bobbin tension up helped a but but perhaps a thicker thread would be better. The thin thread doesn't really grab the tensioner very well at all.

Anyways, too bad about the binder attachments. I'll see what I can rig up for that.

Andrew

Andrew;

Both presser feet on my friend's Cobra come down all the way. I have sewn two layers of heavy canvas with it. If they didn't, I would open the front cover and loosen the inside presser bar set screw, then lower the inside presser bar all the way. Or, I'd go to the back and raise the movable crank arm in the long curved slot, to get higher lift and drop of the alternating feet.

If your inside foot does not make firm contact with the feed dog, first try raising the crank on the back. If that doesn't fix it, open the front cover, find the screw holding the inside foot in position, rotate the wheel to lower the foot to its lowest point, loosen the set screw, pull down the bar until the foot is solidly on the feed dog, make sure the inner foot is dead straight, then tighten the SOB back up.

Did your machine come with a manual, or a DVD? If so, look for an exploded view of the mechanism, or instructions for adjusting various functions.

If you don't have any manual or DVD, call Steve and he will walk you through the procedure. You will require a wide blade, real steel screw driver. The set screws are usually very tight and a Chinese metal screw driver will just warp if you try to apply sufficient pressure to loosen those screws. The crank on the back needs a box wrench to loosen the lock nut securing it vertically.

[Techsew Ron]

I have sewn with #69 thread, using a #19 leather point needle, on a 441 clone, but it took a lot of readjusting of tensions and pressures. In reality, these machines should not be used with less than #92 thread, with #138 working a lot more efficiently.

This is something that needs to be reiterated. We get a lot of customers asking about the Techsew 5100 and its ability to sew garment weight leather and other light materials.

My answer has always been yes, this machine technically CAN sew lighter leather with a size 69 or 90 thread, but it takes a lot of adjusting of tension and pressure because the machine is designed for sewing heavy materials.

One doesn't need a 441 clone for sewing handbags and upholstery weight leather- get the right machine that was designed to sew your application.

Here to help!

Ron

[Andrew Chee]

1321480971[/url]' post='220637']

This is something that needs to be reiterated. We get a lot of customers asking about the Techsew 5100 and its ability to sew garment weight leather and other light materials.

My answer has always been yes, this machine technically CAN sew lighter leather with a size 69 or 90 thread, but it takes a lot of adjusting of tension and pressure because the machine is designed for sewing heavy materials.

One doesn't need a 441 clone for sewing handbags and upholstery weight leather- get the right machine that was designed to sew your application.

Here to help!

Ron

While I agree with you that one should get the right machine for the job, the truth is that I can only afford one machine. I decided to go for the heavier class so I have the option of going to heavier materials if the project calls for it. I don't plan on sewing too many canvas liners but I have to do one and my wife's dinky home machine can't handle the materials (especially near the zipper). So that leaves me with trying to do it with the Toro. Hopefully someday I can afford something like a Consew 206 class machine but until then, I have to try to make do.

On a different note, I would just like to give a note of thanks to Cobra Steve. I was having problems because the machine was sewing slightly different stitch lengths on the forward vs. backward stitches so the backtacks were slightly off. Steve spent some time on the phone with me and helped me diagnose the problem and now the machine is back stitching perfectly.

I originally contemplated going the Craigslist route to save some money but decided to buy from a reputable dealer like Steve precisely for the better service and responsiveness. Thanks Steve.

[Wizcrafts]

While I agree with you that one should get the right machine for the job, the truth is that I can only afford one machine. I decided to go for the heavier class so I have the option of going to heavier materials if the project calls for it. I don't plan on sewing too many canvas liners but I have to do one and my wife's dinky home machine can't handle the materials (especially near the zipper). So that leaves me with trying to do it with the Toro. Hopefully someday I can afford something like a Consew 206 class machine but until then, I have to try to make do.

On a different note, I would just like to give a note of thanks to Cobra Steve. I was having problems because the machine was sewing slightly different stitch lengths on the forward vs. backward stitches so the backtacks were slightly off. Steve spent some time on the phone with me and helped me diagnose the problem and now the machine is back stitching perfectly.

I originally contemplated going the Craigslist route to save some money but decided to buy from a reputable dealer like Steve precisely for the better service and responsiveness. Thanks Steve.

Were you able to lower the inner presser bar, so the foot goes all the way down?

[Andrew Chee]

1321598830[/url]' post='220785']

Were you able to lower the inner presser bar, so the foot goes all the way down?

I didn't lower the inner presser foot but rather raised the feed dog a bit so it makes solid contact now. It still doesn't track well with canvas mainly because the material is so thin that it slips around under the leather feet. I spoke to Steve about it and I'm waiting on the blanket foot set. It'll come with a feed dog with teeth which according to him, should grab the material much better. Hopefully that'll solve the issue.

Andrew

[Joy]

I got an attachment made for my Artisan 3000 made by the Tennessee Attachment Co to do bindings for the corsets I make. I though the price was reasonable, considering this was custom-made. They will need a sample of your material before proceeding. Give them a call. Joy

Tommy Galya

Tennessee Attachment Company

4603 Hwy. 70 E.

White Bluff, TN 37187

(800) 251-5000 or (615) 797-3144

fax: (615) 797-4716

www.tennattachment.com

[Spinner]

That's a nice little binding attachment Joy. I'm getting ready to look for one for a Techsew 2700 soon, good to have a contact if I can't find one reasonably priced.