Linen Thread And Cobbler's Wax

[bootkiller1]

Hi:

I'm about to start work on a pair of medieval turnsole boots. Naturally, I'd like to use reasonably authentic materials, since these are for SCA reenactments. Unfortunately, buying a one-pound ball of Barbour's linen thread is a bit out of my budget right now, and if I try to make my own cobbler's wax my family may do terrible things to me. :-)

I've found websites that sell various weights of linen thread for binding books. The heaviest weight I've found is 12/3, but I'm not sure if that would be suitable for sewing boots from 5 oz leather. Also, it seems that cobbler's wax is used for tying flies and for making a tight seal for bagpipe drones. I've found a place here in St. Louis that sells it for a pretty reasonable price.

Has anyone used this cobbler's wax? Is 12/3 thread heavy enough for making a sturdy pair of boots, or should I club up with some friends and buy the big ball?

Thanks,

Vince

[Kevin]

I don't know anything about cobbler's wax, but for your thread, I would get a 2 oz. ball of no. 10 shoe thread and make my own. This is like a single ply of thread and you build it up to whatever size you want. It would probably be more authentic anyway.

Kevin

[MADMAX22]

I would be leary of some linen threads from various places. Not all linen is created equal. I use barbours thread and many others do as well. There are some other linen threads out there that are good also I just dont know which brands are recommended besides that. If you can afford it try a spool of 5 or 6 cord from cambell bosworths site.

As far as the wax. Most that use linen will use a mix of bees wax and rosin with a little oil thrown in. Basically heat the rosin and bees wax with some oil till it is liquid and ensure it is mixed well then poor it into molds and let cool. Or you can poor it into water and as it cools form it into balls. I like sizes about the size of a golf ball for my hand stitching. By the time you get it mostly used up it will have picked up alot of the fuzz from the thread and this prevents you from wasting a bigger ball of the wax mix.

Hope this helps.

[bootkiller1]

I would be leary of some linen threads from various places. Not all linen is created equal. I use barbours thread and many others do as well. There are some other linen threads out there that are good also I just dont know which brands are recommended besides that. If you can afford it try a spool of 5 or 6 cord from cambell bosworths site.

As far as the wax. Most that use linen will use a mix of bees wax and rosin with a little oil thrown in. Basically heat the rosin and bees wax with some oil till it is liquid and ensure it is mixed well then poor it into molds and let cool. Or you can poor it into water and as it cools form it into balls. I like sizes about the size of a golf ball for my hand stitching. By the time you get it mostly used up it will have picked up alot of the fuzz from the thread and this prevents you from wasting a bigger ball of the wax mix.

Hope this helps.

The thread I've found is Barbour's, but the 12/3 designation doesn't tell me much about its thickness, tensile strength, etc. I want to use cobbler's wax for the pine pitch's anti-rot properties. I'd love to make my own blond wax and twist my own thread, but I live in a house with cats and very small children, both of which like to play with threads and are curious about pots on the stove. My free time is limited, so the fewer steps I have to go through to do this project, the better.

Thanks,

Vince

[MADMAX22]

Ahh ok the cobbler wax sounds pretty good then. Thought it was just a wax or a wax mix. If it has the pine pitch then it is probably similar to what I was describing making. I am not entirely sure but I would assume the 12/3 is 3 cord but I could be wrong. 3 cord may be a little weak for your intended uses. I would think you would need 5 or 6 cord for that kind of work. 5 or 6 cord is some pretty strong stuff, sorry dont have the tensile strength off the top of my head but it has lasted many years of hard abuse with what I have used it for. Several of the belts I made with it are still in use in some pretty bad environments and they are a few years old.

[bootkiller1]

Ahh ok the cobbler wax sounds pretty good then. Thought it was just a wax or a wax mix. If it has the pine pitch then it is probably similar to what I was describing making. I am not entirely sure but I would assume the 12/3 is 3 cord but I could be wrong. 3 cord may be a little weak for your intended uses. I would think you would need 5 or 6 cord for that kind of work. 5 or 6 cord is some pretty strong stuff, sorry dont have the tensile strength off the top of my head but it has lasted many years of hard abuse with what I have used it for. Several of the belts I made with it are still in use in some pretty bad environments and they are a few years old.

I found out what the 12/3 means: 12 is the number of 840 yard hanks needed to make a pound, and the 3 is the number of cords. Hmmm, given the relative cost, maybe I should learn to twist up my own...

Thanks!

[amuckart]

Hi Vince,

I'm about to start work on a pair of medieval turnsole boots. Naturally, I'd like to use reasonably authentic materials, since these are for SCA reenactments. Unfortunately, buying a one-pound ball of Barbour's linen thread is a bit out of my budget right now, and if I try to make my own cobbler's wax my family may do terrible things to me. :-)

Making wax isn't particularly difficult or messy provided you set yourself up right and use a disposable pot or a tin can to heat the mix in. I've got step-by-step instructions on my blog.

The main thing is to avoid setting yourself on fire, so long as you avoid that you're fine. If you really want to make a mess, try rendering 2kg of tallow from suet sometime.

I've found websites that sell various weights of linen thread for binding books. The heaviest weight I've found is 12/3, but I'm not sure if that would be suitable for sewing boots from 5 oz leather. Also, it seems that cobbler's wax is used for tying flies and for making a tight seal for bagpipe drones. I've found a place here in St. Louis that sells it for a pretty reasonable price.

Has anyone used this cobbler's wax? Is 12/3 thread heavy enough for making a sturdy pair of boots, or should I club up with some friends and buy the big ball?

I use shoemakers wax (code) for all my hand sewing these days, shoes or not. It's a bit of a pain at first but once you get used to it you won't want to go back. You can't build anything like as strong a seam without it. If you don't use it, get pre-waxed thread or use synthetic or the threads will rot out of your shoes in no time.

The thread you want is 10/1, single strand linen shoe thread. I believe Campbell-Randall used to sell it but I'm not sure if they still do. I bought a lifetime supply off ebay a few years ago so I haven't paid attention to current sources since then. Leffler leather in Melbourne, Australia sell balls of Coats Barbour "Linen Single Shoe" thread in 12/1 if you can't find it anywhere else. Search their online store for THRSINLINSHO. It comes in 4-5oz balls which spool out from the middle. You taper the ends and ply it up yourself then add bristles (or a thin flexible needle). There are instructions for that on my blog too. If you can't find any of that you can use 3-strand dacron/teklon thread but I'm not sure if that can be had in small quantities or not.

12/3 is probably Ok. for closing seams, but you'll want something a bit heavier for the sole seam if you want the shoes to last well. I use 3 strands of #10 for my closing seams and 5-9 strands for the sole seam depending on the weight of the shoe. I wouldn't want anything less than 8/3 for linen in the sole seam. If you don't go the route of using single-strand thread you'll need to un-ply 8-12 inches and taper the ends then wax and re-ply it to allow you to put a needle or bristle on smoothly. It's well worth going through this process to save trying to haul a folded full thickness through awl holes.

P.S: Purely for the sake of googling usefully, 'turnsole' is a flower. A turnshoe goes on your foot.

[bootkiller1]

P.S: Purely for the sake of googling usefully, 'turnsole' is a flower. A turnshoe goes on your foot.

Details, details... :-)

But yes, thanks for the advice. I'm making these for a friend, and she's paying for materials, so naturally, I want to keep the costs down. Buying a lifetime supply of thread on her dime isn't in the cards. Campbell Bosworth does carry the # 10 thread, but I believe a local art store here carries it as well for bookbinding uses.

I've read your blog extensively and am quite jealous of your talents. I'm also jealous of the fact that you live in Auckland. I lived in NZ for most of a year in 1988-89, and I loved Auckland. I'd go back in a second. (You just can't get Speight's or Double Brown here. We have our own good beer, but it's not the same..)

[amuckart]

If it were me I'd buy the thread and wax myself and get the client to buy the leather. It's best to get your own consumables since they'll last several pairs of shoes and give you materials to practice with.

What you don't see much of on my blog is all the practice pieces I've burned through. I should probably put more of those up though. Whenever I've come across a new technique I've gone through piles of scrap working it out before trying it on a shoe. Fit is a bit harder, the two shoes I cut in half and put up pictures of ended up that way because the construction was fine but they just didn't fit the feet they were for.

Beer in NZ has come a long way since you were here, you should come back and try the Mac's and Monteith's and the other specialist breweries around now. Sadly I can't drink beer any more, but fortunately NZ also does excellent wines.

[Art]

Al,

Is that by law that you can't drink beer? We had a guy that went ballistic crazy after one beer, he could drink anything else but beer caused a reign of major havoc. Brings back memories.

Art

Sadly I can't drink beer any more, but fortunately NZ also does excellent wines.

[amuckart]

Is that by law that you can't drink beer? We had a guy that went ballistic crazy after one beer, he could drink anything else but beer caused a reign of major havoc. Brings back memories.

Nahh, I had a nasty bout of food poisoning a few years ago and it made me gluten intolerant. It really sucks, because I love beer and gluten-free beer costs more than cider and tastes like someone already drank it.

[busted]

Hi:

I'm about to start work on a pair of medieval turnsole boots. Naturally, I'd like to use reasonably authentic materials, since these are for SCA reenactments. Unfortunately, buying a one-pound ball of Barbour's linen thread is a bit out of my budget right now, and if I try to make my own cobbler's wax my family may do terrible things to me. :-)

I've found websites that sell various weights of linen thread for binding books. The heaviest weight I've found is 12/3, but I'm not sure if that would be suitable for sewing boots from 5 oz leather. Also, it seems that cobbler's wax is used for tying flies and for making a tight seal for bagpipe drones. I've found a place here in St. Louis that sells it for a pretty reasonable price.

Has anyone used this cobbler's wax? Is 12/3 thread heavy enough for making a sturdy pair of boots, or should I club up with some friends and buy the big ball?

Thanks,

Vince

How much of this material do you require to complete your project?? I have some Barbour thread I would be willing to part with some of it. It is from Campbell I bought it two or three years ago and hardly use it. I have the 6 cord in black and the 3 cord in off-white if memory serves me correctly. I can't help with the cobblers wax all I have is bee's wax. Send a pm with your address.

[bootkiller1]

How much of this material do you require to complete your project?? I have some Barbour thread I would be willing to part with some of it. It is from Campbell I bought it two or three years ago and hardly use it. I have the 6 cord in black and the 3 cord in off-white if memory serves me correctly. I can't help with the cobblers wax all I have is bee's wax. Send a pm with your address.

Done. Thanks for your generosity!

[bootkiller1]

Nahh, I had a nasty bout of food poisoning a few years ago and it made me gluten intolerant. It really sucks, because I love beer and gluten-free beer costs more than cider and tastes like someone already drank it.

You poor, poor man. Fortunately, you have plenty of good wine and mead to choose from. (By the way, is the Shakespeare Brewery still there in Auckland? They made a killer stout, as I recall...)