Iwb Holster - Looking For Feedback

[particle]

I don't have a lot of experience with IWB holsters, but was recently asked to build one by an existing customer. It'll be for a 3" 1911. This is my first attempt at this style holster, and I'd appreciate feedback. I built it out of scrap belly leather, so please ignore the lack of edging, burnishing, etc. The snap loops are not attached as I don't have the T-Nuts on hand at the moment.

At first glance, I'm not sure the ride height is right. I feel like it needs to ride lower on the waist line. I think I'd ideally like the top of the belt to be flush with the top of the holster at the trigger guard area, but I'm not sure if that would begin to interfere with a good combat grip on the gun.

I also might trim some of the curve off on the trailing wing - it looks like it might curve outward too far.

Any other thoughts? Thanks for looking!

[Bronson]

First...damn you make nice stuff. Second, it looks like you may be cutting it a little close on the spacing between the grip and the top of the rear wing. I'm currently looking at redoing an IWB holster I made for a friend. It works just fine for my slim girly hands but his manly meat-paws don't have enough room to get a comfortable grip....my holster had about the same spacing as yours.

Bronson

[jlaudio29]

why are the edges not burnished? I think you should have burnished them it gives the holster a cleaner look... Why did you use belly? You know if you use some more premium cut of leather it will be stiffer and better for holster making and will make it come out nicer... hahahaha JK Eric

Ok so the jokes aside. The only thing that i can see is what you have already pointed out about the ride height, i would just move the right wing up about 1/2" to 3/4" and remove a little meat from the left wing.

Watch out that wrap around reinforced throat is addicting!!!

[particle]

Here is a quick photo that I took on my way out the door this morning showing the clearance at the grip area. I'm 6'2" with relatively large hands and I can grip it just fine.

Edited December 30, 2011 by particle

[Big G]

i use cheap belly for my first and second holster when trying a new pattern .. usually get thrown away anyway

[husker]

I'm getting ready to tackle one of these for the first time myself. Looks very good to me, couple questions if you don't mind. Did you have any throat clearance problems doing this on your boss? Thanks, Matt

[particle]

Actually, it was very easy to sew this on my Boss. The hardest part was figuring out how to position all the pieces as I assembled it. It's literally like a jigsaw puzzle... I must have stared at it for 30 minutes trying to figure out the assembly steps! You do have to fold the leading tabs out of the way as you go so you don't stitch over it, which was pretty easy to do with the belly leather but might be more difficult with usable pieces.

I would love to see other's photos of the front-to-back splice along the top of the slide. Do you do anything special there? Or just glue the halves to the reinforcement with the front and back butted up to each other?

If you're lining it - do you line it like you would a Pancake holster, or like you would an Avenger (which would obviously leave a gap between the lining and the seam of the pancake sight channel, but it would reinforce and cover the previously mentioned splice)...?

[Steven Kelley]

One thing you can do to lower the ride height is increase the cant angle. Keeping a gap between the rear wing and grip limits how low the holster can ride. By increasing the cant angle, you increase that gap. When one of my customers requests a lower ride height, I usually go with a 25° cant. That allows the holster to be lowered in relation to the belt about 3/4", while keeping enough gap for a full grip. Obviously, if the customer isn't open to the increased angle, that can't be done. Usually though, once they wear the holster with additional angle, they like it. 25° on an IWB holster is really a good angle for concealment and ease of draw.

[particle]

Good point Steven - thanks! That's part of the benefit of creating a mock-up - it's easy to see where those adjustments can be made and makes refining the paper pattern much easier (at least for me). My customer is coming by my shop tomorrow to look it over - I'll see what he thinks about the increased cant.

[steelhawk]

I like it. That design is one I have been meaning to try as well, just haven't had the time yet. FYI, I use 6-32 T-nuts, #03775. I had the hardware store order a pack of 100 from Midwest Fastener. Lots cheaper then paying .33 for each one.

[particle]

Thanks! Since I've only made a hand full of IWBs in the past (Summer Special design), I wasn't sure where to order from. Is 6-32 the size most people use? Seems a little small to me, but any bigger and the prongs seem too long if you sandwich it between the layers of leather. I ordered a bunch of dot fastener snaps a while back - can't remember how well that screw size fits the snap base.

[woodandsteel]

Looks good! I like how the signature shape of the reinforcement panel makes it clearly look like one of your holsters, even though it's a popular IWB style.

As others said, I think you might want to raise the front snap attachment point a little, to lower the ride height. By doing that, you might (but might not!) find that the added unsupported length of the front wing doesn't pull the gun in to the body tight enough, so you might make the reinforcement panel shorter, to decrease the length of the gap between the gun and the front wing.

Or not

I started out placing my snap loops much wider than probably necessary, but have settled on bringing them in to 1" from the stitching on either side. That leaves me enough room for a good grip on the gun, and just enough room to fit a sanding drum in the curve between the front wing and the body shield.

I usually make holsters with an 18 degree cant, which I find usually works well to conceal even full size grips.

[Colt Hammerless]

When he comes over, have him put the pistol in his belt at various places around his waist and at different angles of cant. I did that with a friend of mine, and he found the best place for him to conceal it was around 8:00 (lefty) and 30 degrees. I recently finished an IWB for my Steyr M40 and put the cant at 22.5 degrees (yes, I seriously drew it up like that on the paper, as I wanted to try it EXACTLY half way between 15 and 30, and I DID laugh at myself as I was doing it.) Hides the grip well, ride height exactly where I wanted it with no issues about room for a combat grip. You may only need to add a few degrees to what you have. Maybe in the area of 20 degrees plus or minus a couple. Let us know what the guy thinks about the positioning and cant, as I'm curious. By the way, that's a nice looking prototype! Oh, and Woodandsteel, gorgeous work!

Colt Hammerless

[woodandsteel]

Thanks, Colt Hammerless. The truth is, most of what I know about making holsters I learned from Particle and other people here on this forum!

I'm a big admirer of his work (He's one of only two makers who's holsters I still think about scraping money together to buy for myself!) so I feel a bit awkward offering advice, but that's part of what makes this forum such a great resource.

[Big O]

I don't bone IWB holsters in much detail, and the rear surface, not at all. Just hand-molding on the rear.

From my own experience wearing these holsters, retention is not an issue due to them being pressed against the body by the belt.

That's a gorgeous holster. Hard to believe it's a first.

[malabar]

Your workmanship is lovely as always.

I'm still really new to this, but my side-strap IWB is my most popular holster. And mine have been constantly evolving based on issues with proper grip, especially for this who have adopted the modern "thumbs high" style of shooting. Most shooters are not that particular about their grip (which is one reason why they do not shoot consistently well), but this is a serious issue for the more advanced ones. The grip you show in the photos would not be considered "proper" by the high-speed, low-drag crowd.

This is the grip I'm talking about....

http://www.personaldefensenetwork.com/articles/handguns/maximizing-the-combat-grip/

It appears to me from your photos that there is not enough clearance between your knuckles and the left strap attachment point. If your fingers wrap just a little tighter, the knuckles will scrape the leather there. That will become more pronounced for clients with fat fingers.

Also. the relief on the sweatshield could be an issue for some shooters. Your photo shows your thumb down along the lower edge of the sweatguard. A shooter using the thumbs "high grip" will want that thumb to be about a half inch higher, up along the frame.

Not meaning to be critical, just some of the issues I've dealt with ion this design.

And again, I love your work!

tk

[woodandsteel]

Good insight Malabar! I cut my sweat guards with a curve to clear as much of the thumb as possible. Would this one be sufficient for your requirements, or would it need to go even further?

[skippy]

Good insight Malabar! I cut my sweat guards with a curve to clear as much of the thumb as possible. Would this one be sufficient for your requirements, or would it need to go even further?

what are those rivets?

[particle]

Thanks for the feedback Malabar. I could probably stand to trim a little of the sweat shield away, but none of my customers have complained about the way cut mine. That being said - if I were to cut the sweat shield enough to clear the thumb completely for the "thumbs high" grip you mention and linked to, there might as well be no sweat shield at all. The proper grip for a 1911 is to have the thumb riding on top of the thumb safety, yet most people would prefer to have the thumb safety completely covered by the sweat shield. I'm afraid this is one of those areas where you simply can't have it both ways. I've chosen to cut the sweat shield where you can get a nice firm grip on the gun to draw it from the holster without interfering with the sweat shield, but this is not to say the thumb won't have to be moved slightly for a "proper" shooting grip.

[jlaudio29]

Yep, I prefer to have the thumb safety covered on my 1911s that i carry, but i do rest my thumb on the thumb safety when shooting. Creates a habit so that you always make sure the safety is off when your ready to shoot.

Skippy - those are T-nuts

[malabar]

Thanks for the feedback Malabar. I could probably stand to trim a little of the sweat shield away, but none of my customers have complained about the way cut mine. That being said - if I were to cut the sweat shield enough to clear the thumb completely for the "thumbs high" grip you mention and linked to, there might as well be no sweat shield at all. The proper grip for a 1911 is to have the thumb riding on top of the thumb safety, yet most people would prefer to have the thumb safety completely covered by the sweat shield. I'm afraid this is one of those areas where you simply can't have it both ways. I've chosen to cut the sweat shield where you can get a nice firm grip on the gun to draw it from the holster without interfering with the sweat shield, but this is not to say the thumb won't have to be moved slightly for a "proper" shooting grip.

Yeah, that's a really good point. I agree that you want the thumb safety covered on a .45. The guys I was crafting my tactical IWBs for shoot Glocks and SIGs.

And in all fairness, It's a choice I give to my customers -- the fuller sweatguard tends to be more comfortable, while the smaller one allows for a better grip. And you can still manage a proper "thumbs high" grip with the larger sweatguard -- you just have to get in the habit of putting your thumb down the back of the guard -- and most folks seem to find that awkward. That seems like the only solution, though, for 1911 shooters who use the thumbs high grip.

tk

[malabar]

Good insight Malabar! I cut my sweat guards with a curve to clear as much of the thumb as possible. Would this one be sufficient for your requirements, or would it need to go even further?

That looks like a good approach to me. I've attached a photo showing the cutaway on on of my "tactical" IWBs for comparison, and it has a similar deep. arc. Since you want your thumb on the safety, and the you want the safety covered, I don't see a way around from having to put your thumb on top of the leather. I think the critical issue is keeping the base of the thumb unhindered -- and that curve might really help.

I noticed that you're using a single attachment point for your straps. I have assumed that with a single attachment point the flexing straps would put torque on the screw and loosen it over time. Does this not happen? Do you loctite the screw of something similar? A single attachment point gives a fair bit more design freedom.....

tk

Edited January 1, 2012 by malabar

[woodandsteel]

That looks like a good approach to me. I've attached a photo showing the cutaway on on of my "tactical" IWBs for comparison, and it has a similar deep. arc. Since you want your thumb on the safety, and the you want the safety covered, I don't see a way around from having to put your thumb on top of the leather. I think the critical issue is keeping the base of the thumb unhindered -- and that curve might really help.

I noticed that you're using a single attachment point for your straps. I have assumed that with a single attachment point the flexing straps would put torque on the screw and loosen it over time. Does this not happen? Do you loctite the screw of something similar? A single attachment point gives a fair bit more design freedom.....

tk

Yeah, I think holster design is always going to be a series of compromises. An IWB holster is never going to be as fast as an owb "speed" holster and, in designing one, you trade some of that accessibility for concealability and comfort.

The screws on single point attachments do loosen up some over time. I just snug them up if they ever come loose, but a light Lock-tite would work.

[TwinOaks]

You can use 6/32 just fine and the heads recess nicely in a line 24 snap with no modification. I have used 8/32, but had to reduce the head by chucking the threads up in a drill and applying a mill file as it spun.

I've never had any issues with the size/strength.

As far as the little prongs on the t-nuts......Grasshopper, you have forgotten the most important rule of this craft: If it doesn't work...MODIFY IT!!!! I routinely use a pair of side cutters/ wire nips to chop the points off those little prongs. It changes it from a small sharp triangle to a smaller sharp trapezoid....and it stays put just fine.

[steelhawk]

I trim my sweat shield enough so the holster back doesn't cover the magazine release. Nothing is more irritating than having the magazine fall out, seemingly all by itself.

I also use blue loctite on the threads.

Edited January 1, 2012 by steelhawk