cleveland Report post Posted January 9, 2012 (edited) I would like to get a machine to make belts and holsters with. From everything I have read the Juki 441 or a 441 clone would be the biggest bang for my buck, but I am not ready to spend $2500. Money is the current obsticle, but it wont be an issue forever. I am looking at my options as the following three: 1-Get a used Tippmann Boss. It would work well for holsters but I can't imagine it working well for belts. 2-Wait till I can scrape together the $2500 and get the 441 clone. 3-Find an alternative solution for around $900 Part of me says, get the Boss and start making holsters now. Once I have pulled my investment back out of the machine, get a 441 and streamline production. The other part of me says, wait till you have the 441 and then hit the ground running. I am really on the fence and would like the recommendations. The idea of finding a $900 alternative solution is unlikely, but I figured I would throw it out there. Thanks! Edited January 9, 2012 by cleveland Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
particle Report post Posted January 9, 2012 I currently have a Boss, but am hoping to upgrade to a powered machine very soon if funds allow. The Boss is certainly capable of sewing belts. I've done quite a few with mine. Yes, it takes a while, but if you sew non-stop, you can finish one in about 5 minutes - maybe a little longer. The edge guide isn't even necessary - just scribe a line along the edge and pay attention to your stitch placement and you'll be just fine. If all you can spend right now is enough to buy the Boss, then do it - you'll be able to sew a holster/belt in just a few minutes instead of a few hours, and in a few months time you'll be able to sell that Boss for almost what you paid for it and buy a powered machine. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cleveland Report post Posted January 9, 2012 I currently have a Boss, but am hoping to upgrade to a powered machine very soon if funds allow. The Boss is certainly capable of sewing belts. I've done quite a few with mine. Yes, it takes a while, but if you sew non-stop, you can finish one in about 5 minutes - maybe a little longer. The edge guide isn't even necessary - just scribe a line along the edge and pay attention to your stitch placement and you'll be just fine. If all you can spend right now is enough to buy the Boss, then do it - you'll be able to sew a holster/belt in just a few minutes instead of a few hours, and in a few months time you'll be able to sell that Boss for almost what you paid for it and buy a powered machine. Really?! That is encouraging to hear. I don't want to squeeze too hard when I stroke your ego here, but YOUR work is what got me interested in making my own holsters. I stumbled upon you video on youtube and I was hooked! I currently make hybrid holsters and they are doing very well, but would like to make belts to go with them and expand the holsters to pancake style holsters too. Thanks for input! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
particle Report post Posted January 9, 2012 Thank you for the kind words. Always happy to help! Good luck with your decision, but I don't think you'll be disappointed by starting out with a Boss until you can afford to upgrade. I was just looking at your website - hat's off to ya' for the Wounded Warrior page. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rayban Report post Posted January 9, 2012 Cleveland...your OP sounds exactly what I went through about a year ago....I had the $$ to buy the Boss but I thought I would see if I could find something used at Toledo Bob's before I drove to Fort Wayne. After Bob demo-ed a couple machines for me I decided to scrape up the necessary funds to go electric. It took me a couple months, but I'm sure glad I waited. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wizcrafts Report post Posted January 10, 2012 I would like to get a machine to make belts and holsters with. From everything I have read the Juki 441 or a 441 clone would be the biggest bang for my buck, but I am not ready to spend $2500. Money is the current obsticle, but it wont be an issue forever. Where are you going to find a Juki 441 for $2500? Send me a link so I can buy one! They sell for over $5000 everywhere I've looked. One would be lucky to find a used Juki 441 for $2500. The Chinese 441 clones sell for about $2500 new, with 16.5" arms. Nine inch models sell for around 2 grand. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cleveland Report post Posted January 10, 2012 (edited) Where are you going to find a Juki 441 for $2500? Send me a link so I can buy one! They sell for over $5000 everywhere I've looked. One would be lucky to find a used Juki 441 for $2500. The Chinese 441 clones sell for about $2500 new, with 16.5" arms. Nine inch models sell for around 2 grand. It should have read "find a used Juki 441 or rather a 441 clone" and I was referring to used machines. Sorry about the typo. Most of the info I got about the Juki 441 clones was from you back in July through PM's. Thanks again for all the input! Edited January 10, 2012 by cleveland Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rickybobby Report post Posted January 10, 2012 I started with a boss, did holsters and belts. The belt stitching is time consuming but it is a LOT LESS than hand stitching!! :brainbleach: I sold my boss (I do miss it for some jobs) and picked up a Artisan 3000 from Cobra Steve that he took on trade from a show he did. I paid a lot less than Artisan wanted for a new one and get to deal with Steve instead of Artisan. It was not much more than the Boss was new (on sale even). This machine will be fine for me for a while, I may never sell it and just upgrade to a longer are later. The Boss works fine for belts just don't "short stroke" it. If you do not make the full pull and push length it will miss a stitch. Take your time and remember "You are not hand sewing this damn belt"!!! And SMILE !!! Look for someone upgrading and wanting to sell there 441 clone. They do come up, especially after a leather crafters show (next one in feb., Wickenburg Az.) Rick Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wizcrafts Report post Posted January 10, 2012 It should have read "find a used Juki 441 or rather a 441 clone" and I was referring to used machines. Sorry about the typo. Most of the info I got about the Juki 441 clones was from you back in July through PM's. Thanks again for all the input! I wuz just funnin' with ya ;-) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cleveland Report post Posted January 10, 2012 Thanks! Being an old school single stage reloader (powder drop), I can appreciate the dangers of short stroking. I think the Boss may be a good investment and perhaps I will keep it around for the kids when I move up. Someone send me a lead on a Tippman Aerostitc. Can you offer any insight on these? Thanks again! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KAYAK45 Report post Posted January 10, 2012 ON buying one machine, hoping to move UP! Time learning each machine...say 40 hours! @ $15 = $600 Buying needles ETC. = $100 Leather used to know set up and tensions??? =$100 Product quality on "Learning Machine" =?????????????? VS Cost of CORRECT MACHINE TO START WITH! Your total INVESTMENT in a say.......CB4500 is $2,500 +-. Interest rate of 1.5% = $3.25 per Month! Interest rate of 8%= $16.67 per month! Interest rate of 18%= $37.50 per month! Hours saved per month at $??? per hour = ?????. The original cost of a good machine means nothing. You still own it, and can sell at any time, for almost the entire original price, maybe $500 less. The only "Cost" is your interest rate and the the depreciation (say $500) spread over the time you use it. Buy the best machine you can get and don't look back!!! Just a thought. Kevin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cleveland Report post Posted January 10, 2012 I just closed a deal with Steve for a Ferco Pro 2000, looks like it will be a much longer term investment the the Boss. I spent more then I wanted to, but it wasn't really that much more then a full priced Boss. He let me put half down and pay him the other half in 30 days from now which made it doable. He is clearly the down to earth informative guy everyone says he is. Thanks for all the input! BTW, any good online instructional videos for the 441? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
malabar Report post Posted January 15, 2012 Thanks! Being an old school single stage reloader (powder drop), I can appreciate the dangers of short stroking. I think the Boss may be a good investment and perhaps I will keep it around for the kids when I move up. Someone send me a lead on a Tippman Aerostitc. Can you offer any insight on these? Thanks again! That's funny! And right on the money. I started out with a Lee Loader and progressed to Dillon 650. When it came time to buy a stitcher, I went straight for the Cobra Class 4 <g> tk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cleveland Report post Posted January 15, 2012 Just sent Cobra Steve a check! I will be waiting with the anticipation of a kid waiting for Santa. :-) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rickybobby Report post Posted January 15, 2012 I have used a 2000 at Ben's Saddlery in Wickenburg for years. It is a great machine!!! You will not have any regrets going with this over a Boss machine. Cobra Steve is a great guy and will help with support. Don't forget to post photos!! I found that I was more willing to try new designs and prototype pieces for my own business because I did not have to hand sew it! I was willing to throw away the cost of the leather while experimenting but not as willing to throw away the time to hand sew the prototypes. Good luck, it is a new chapter in your leather work! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cleveland Report post Posted January 26, 2012 It came today! Now to learn how to set it up and... how to use it! :-) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Handstitched Report post Posted January 26, 2012 G'Day, I've just posted this arvo, about my machine in "'Thickness Test- Q Stitch Colt' . similar to Cobra machines " Thats a great investment you have a there. They're pretty impressive machines. I've had my machine for approx 4 years now, and never looked back, and no regrets. Happy sewing !! Best Regards, Handstitched Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites