Juki 441 Clone Versus Adler 205-370

[Steven Kelley]

Yes,I forgot to mention he's correct the Cowboy has a tension release too.It's right underneath the first tension umit & is activated when you pickup the foot,it's a black lever.

When you take off the end cover plate to oil the parts inside you need to make sure you line the pin up when you put in back on.

Bob

Yes, mine does have that and it is working properly. It just does not release enough tension so the piece can be easily pulled out of the machine, without pulling thread by hand from the take up lever. It does release some tension, but not enough. It's really not a big deal at all. Maybe it's the way I have the tensions adjusted on the machine. The Adler releases quite a bit more of the tension, so that you can just pull the piece out.

I have white thread in one and black in the other. After using the Adler a few days exclusively, I needed to use the Cowboy yesterday. Overall, I actually like stitching on the Cowboy more than the Adler.

[CowboyBob]

Yes, mine does have that and it is working properly. It just does not release enough tension so the piece can be easily pulled out of the machine, without pulling thread by hand from the take up lever. It does release some tension, but not enough. It's really not a big deal at all. Maybe it's the way I have the tensions adjusted on the machine. The Adler releases quite a bit more of the tension, so that you can just pull the piece out.

I have white thread in one and black in the other. After using the Adler a few days exclusively, I needed to use the Cowboy yesterday. Overall, I actually like stitching on the Cowboy more than the Adler.

You know that's a great idea that everyone should do..have a machine for each color.

Sounds like you still need another machine for the brown??

Bob

[Steven Kelley]

You know that's a great idea that everyone should do..have a machine for each color.

Sounds like you still need another machine for the brown??

Bob

Bob,

When I get ready for a third machine, you'll be getting an order for another Cowboy. No doubt about that.

[Wizcrafts]

Steven;

I find that using a single wrap around the bottom tension disk (not really a tension disk per say) allows the thread to feed much easier than a double wrap. I set the required tensions between the bobbin spring and first tension disk set. When I release the work with the foot lifter, I can pull the threads out very easily. Double wrapping the bottom disk makes it harder to pull the thread out.

Furthermore, if you go through two holes in the top post, it is harder to pull the thread out.

Black thread is springier than white thread and needs more TLC in the feed path.

[wnkleather]

Just wondering if anyone has a 20 year old Chinese machine that sews like my 30 year old Adler 205?

[Art]

No they don't. China could not have made a 441 clone 20 years ago. I do have a 27 year old Juki that will give it a run for it's money though, might be better too.

Art

Just wondering if anyone has a 20 year old Chinese machine that sews like my 30 year old Adler 205?

[wnkleather]

No they don't. China could not have made a 441 clone 20 years ago. I do have a 27 year old Juki that will give it a run for it's money though, might be better too.

Art

I'm sure it's sweet. I have a couple old Consews that are tight. I'm not questioning stitch quality, just machine longevity. If I spend $5000 on an Adler and it last 30 years, does $3000 on a clone get me 20 years? (I'm not sure a brand new Adler gets you 30 years). I am just throwing the $/year out there. (I have no affiliation with Adler or any machine sales). What I do like is that the clones make it more affordable for the crafter - but is it only short term? Will the specs change such that parts become unavailable ? Do leatherworkers have the economic muscle to make sure parts are available? After all, building mediocre, even low end products, that need to be replaced, is how the Chinese have taken over the world's manufacturing. 'If it fails, they'll have to buy a new one".

[Art]

As long as you get a machine from a good quality factory, and maintain the machine, it should last 30 years or more, even on a production floor, they just need proper maintenance. I have seen machines from the late '90s that run every bit as good as when new. I wouldn't worry too much about parts availability as the Chinese are careful to copy classic machines, where there are gazillions of them and parts will be available. If the manufacturer deviates from the norm, like bringing out a new arm length, then you will have to depend on that distributor until there are enough of them in service to get the notice of parts manufacturers. Today's clones are in some ways better then their ancestors, they are manufactured to tighter tolerance, and use robotics for drilling and milling.

Art

I'm sure it's sweet. I have a couple old Consews that are tight. I'm not questioning stitch quality, just machine longevity. If I spend $5000 on an Adler and it last 30 years, does $3000 on a clone get me 20 years? (I'm not sure a brand new Adler gets you 30 years). I am just throwing the $/year out there. (I have no affiliation with Adler or any machine sales). What I do like is that the clones make it more affordable for the crafter - but is it only short term? Will the specs change such that parts become unavailable ? Do leatherworkers have the economic muscle to make sure parts are available? After all, building mediocre, even low end products, that need to be replaced, is how the Chinese have taken over the world's manufacturing. 'If it fails, they'll have to buy a new one".

[wnkleather]

As long as you get a machine from a good quality factory, and maintain the machine, it should last 30 years or more, even on a production floor, they just need proper maintenance. I have seen machines from the late '90s that run every bit as good as when new. I wouldn't worry too much about parts availability as the Chinese are careful to copy classic machines, where there are gazillions of them and parts will be available. If the manufacturer deviates from the norm, like bringing out a new arm length, then you will have to depend on that distributor until there are enough of them in service to get the notice of parts manufacturers. Today's clones are in some ways better then their ancestors, they are manufactured to tighter tolerance, and use robotics for drilling and milling.

Art

I'm not sold but you make good points. I'm guessing that when I need another machine I'll try a Cobra, Cowboy, or ? because I do read good things about them.

[CowboyBob]

Ok,I guess I'll have to add my 2-cents,Art makes a very good point these machines are much better than years ago.We do not see abnormal parts breakage or flaws in these machinea.If we did we wouldn't be selling them.

The best part with either the 205 or 441 type of machine made in China is if needed you can buy the parts from either Juki or Adler since they interchange.So you'll never have to worry abnout parts not being available.

Bob