Sylvia Report post Posted February 27, 2012 (edited) I bought myself a Barry King swivel knife and I love it's action but I'm not so fond of the hollow ground blade provided with the knife. I have a hard time stropping it. and can't seem to get the dang thing sharp. Picked up my old old craftool knife with a straight blade, thick as all get out but I can get it sharp and I seem to do better with this old knife than my new one and that !@#!!@#$#$@ hollow ground blade. Please, if there is a secret to getting this hollow ground blade sharp and stropped properly... please let me know. I'm about to send this whole knife back out of sheer frustration with the blade. Edited February 27, 2012 by Sylvia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
electrathon Report post Posted February 27, 2012 Sharpening a hollow ground blade is no differant than any other blade. The hollow grinding just makes the leading edge of the knife thinner. When you strop the knife hold it just as you would any other blade. BUT, stropping is not designed to sharpen a blade, only to keep it sharp. A high quality blade is tougher to sharpen though than a soft blade. The steel is harder, so it is both harder to sharpen and stary sharp longer/better. Aaron Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sylvia Report post Posted February 27, 2012 (edited) Sharpening a hollow ground blade is no differant than any other blade. The hollow grinding just makes the leading edge of the knife thinner. When you strop the knife hold it just as you would any other blade. BUT, stropping is not designed to sharpen a blade, only to keep it sharp. A high quality blade is tougher to sharpen though than a soft blade. The steel is harder, so it is both harder to sharpen and stary sharp longer/better. Aaron That's what I thought... but I'm having problems "finding the angle" I think I'll call Brad tomorrow, express my frustrations and ask to send this thing back, since they don't offer straight blades. Disappointing. Oh and btw Aaron... I am a meat cutters daughter... I know the difference between sharpening and stropping. Thanks though. Edited February 27, 2012 by Sylvia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bruce johnson Report post Posted February 27, 2012 Not to butt in here, but I didn't know Barry King made a hollow ground blade. He has about as many blade options as anyone who makes knives. I have had a few and use one now that is not hollow ground. If you don't mind, please post a picture of the blade because I might be interested in ordering one. Thanks, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
electrathon Report post Posted February 27, 2012 That's what I thought... but I'm having problems "finding the angle" I think I'll call Brad tomorrow, express my frustrations and ask to send this thing back, since they don't offer straight blades. Disappointing. Oh and btw Aaron... I am a meat cutters daughter... I know the difference between sharpening and stropping. Thanks though. Ah-ha! That just blew the part in your profile where you are "not tellin" about your gender. It is really amazing how many people do not know the differance. Even more amazing is how many people think that they can cut properly with a dull knife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sylvia Report post Posted February 27, 2012 Not to butt in here, but I didn't know Barry King made a hollow ground blade. He has about as many blade options as anyone who makes knives. I have had a few and use one now that is not hollow ground. If you don't mind, please post a picture of the blade because I might be interested in ordering one. Thanks, Hi Bruce: A few days ago I did call BK and asked Brad is there is a straight blade for these knives. He told me "no, only hollow ground." On the website it even says "All swivel knives are solid brass with a free-spinning bearing design. Each has a hollow ground, heat treated, tool steel blade." Anyway..... Your photo... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sylvia Report post Posted February 27, 2012 Ah-ha! That just blew the part in your profile where you are "not tellin" about your gender. It is really amazing how many people do not know the differance. Even more amazing is how many people think that they can cut properly with a dull knife. LOL... I guess Sylvia wasn't your first clue. :D "The most dangerous knife is a dull knife" is what my father said. He made sure I knew how to sharpen, hone and strop. And I grew up with knowing to run when he got out his knives to sharpen them... because after he was done shaving the hair off his forearms he got my sister... and headed for me... ha! I did learn though... and I also know his sage sausage recipe... can skin and gut a deer... and can bone it out, cut it up and wrap it. I think that is the reason why I'm so frustrated with this blade.... I should be able to pull a fine edge and it just ain't happening. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bruce johnson Report post Posted February 27, 2012 Thanks for the picture. I guess I was expecting the blade was hollow ground since that is what seems to be the trouble. That vertical grind is on my BK and the Ol Smoothies too and is kind of a loose use of the term "hollow ground". It shouldn't affect how the blade should sharpen though since the cutting bevel is flat. I use a jig on some of my new blades to make the bevel a little flatter. I know I did it to the BK and two of the Ol Smoothies I use. I have one Ol Smoothie I left original to open a wider ditch and my Leather Wrangler is a slim blade and makes a nice narrow cut as-is. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveh Report post Posted February 27, 2012 Sylvia, I use barry king blade blade . It really cuts smooth and holds and edge well.The geomentry of the blade is hollow ground perpendicular to the cutting edge, unlike most tradition knives (hunting or butcher) where the hollow ground is parralel to the blade edge This type of grind allows less metal removal when honing on a stone. When sharpening do not follow the radius of the hollow ground. You sharpen the blade as you would sharpen your standard straight blade.. I sharpen with a roller fixture at 30 degrees on a hard arkansas stone. when both sides of the blade are trued up then Ii strop on a rouge strop to a mirror polish..I hope this will help. steve Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sylvia Report post Posted February 27, 2012 Sylvia, I use barry king blade blade . It really cuts smooth and holds and edge well.The geomentry of the blade is hollow ground perpendicular to the cutting edge, unlike most tradition knives (hunting or butcher) where the hollow ground is parralel to the blade edge This type of grind allows less metal removal when honing on a stone. When sharpening do not follow the radius of the hollow ground. You sharpen the blade as you would sharpen your standard straight blade.. I sharpen with a roller fixture at 30 degrees on a hard arkansas stone. when both sides of the blade are trued up then Ii strop on a rouge strop to a mirror polish..I hope this will help. steve Uh huh... that's what I have been doing except... BK blades don't fit the "roller fixture" He makes his shafts on the blades larger then a standard or Tandy blade. I got so dang frustrated I nearly used the darned thing as a dart today. LOL I swore so long and hard... even my ex-sailor husband was shocked. (I rarely say "f-words" when I'm mad) I don't know, I'm not sure this blade is worth the PITA it's causing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tatehunt Report post Posted February 27, 2012 Uh huh... that's what I have been doing except... BK blades don't fit the "roller fixture" He makes his shafts on the blades larger then a standard or Tandy blade. I got so dang frustrated I nearly used the darned thing as a dart today. LOL I swore so long and hard... even my ex-sailor husband was shocked. (I rarely say "f-words" when I'm mad) I don't know, I'm not sure this blade is worth the PITA it's causing. I had the same issue with my jig. I just put the blade and the stone at eye level and was able to get a good angle. I do a 200,400, and 800 grit(japanese water stone) series of sharpening, then polish with Green rouge on my strop. I was able to get a great edge on it, and It's staying sharper than my other blades. I also found some waterstone wedges one can sand to a thin edge to sharpen edgers, groovers, and other cutting tools. The wedges rock. www.japanwoodworker.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sylvia Report post Posted February 27, 2012 I had the same issue with my jig. I just put the blade and the stone at eye level and was able to get a good angle. I do a 200,400, and 800 grit(japanese water stone) series of sharpening, then polish with Green rouge on my strop. I was able to get a great edge on it, and It's staying sharper than my other blades. I also found some waterstone wedges one can sand to a thin edge to sharpen edgers, groovers, and other cutting tools. The wedges rock. www.japanwoodworker.com Thanks Tate... I did that too. I can't see or feel the angle. When I think I have the angle and draw it on the stone... and look at the edge... I can see that the angle I got was not the original cut line. Ok, well, I'm going to chalk this up to my being hollow ground blade sharpening challenged and send this blade back... maybe even with the whole dang knife. It's too bad too, I really loved the action of this knife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
amuckart Report post Posted February 27, 2012 You could make a small version of the angled jig on Brent's Sharpening Pages. It'd work well for swivel knife blades and fit any blade type you wanted to. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sylvia Report post Posted February 27, 2012 You could make a small version of the angled jig on Brent's Sharpening Pages. It'd work well for swivel knife blades and fit any blade type you wanted to. Thanks for the link. I'll check it out and see if it is something we can make with the shop tools we have. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ken Nelson Report post Posted February 27, 2012 Thanks for the link. I'll check it out and see if it is something we can make with the shop tools we have. I drilled out the roller guide to work with my Barry King blades. Used a hand drill and was very careful. Helped me a bunch to get it right. Ken Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tree Reaper Report post Posted February 27, 2012 Sylvia, it's not the blade. The angle has been changed and I can see why it won't cut looking at the picture you posted. How did it cut when you first tried it? Kevin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Art Report post Posted February 27, 2012 A trick when sharpening a flat ground edge (hollow ground works too but is different) is to paint the edge with magic marker or something similar and then remove some metal. This will allow you to see where you are grinding. I have shown this to folks and they were really suprised to find they were removing metal from the shoulder and not getting anywhere near the edge. This is ok if you're changing the edge geometry, but you are going to have to grind longer to get to the edge. For use older folks, a 10x loupe is a handy gadget too. Art Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hidepounder Report post Posted February 27, 2012 I'm surprised no one has mentioned the"Big Red" roller guide that Chuck Smith sells. It comes with a 30 degree angle guide and accepts two sizes of blade shanks. I use this on every blade I sharpen. If you use the guide it's pretty hard to get it wrong! I used to sharpen free hand by "feel" but I've proven to myself that I can't even come close to getting a consistent angle and a flat plane on each side without the guide. Consequently I need to sharpen less that 1/2 as often as I used to. When I sharpen I use a 600 and 1200 diamond hone. Be sure you push the blade across the hone...don't drag it! Then I finish with 2000 grit sand paper and polish with green rouge. Barry's blades are made of tool steel and will provide years of service if prepared properly. With the exception of my LW I won't use anything but hollow ground blades. If you don't want to spend the money on a Big Red it is a pretty simple matter to drill out an inexpensive Tandy roller guide to fit your blade. Then you only need to figure out the angle. Hope this helps...... Bobby Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sylvia Report post Posted February 27, 2012 I drilled out the roller guide to work with my Barry King blades. Used a hand drill and was very careful. Helped me a bunch to get it right. Ken Fantastic Idea Ken.... however, then it wouldn't work for any of the standard shank blades. I might see if I can find another jig and then drill it out to have one of each. Barry is going to send me another blade, a regular style blade. So he is taking good care of me. Apparently, I am one of 2 people who have disliked these hollow ones. Sylvia, it's not the blade. The angle has been changed and I can see why it won't cut looking at the picture you posted. How did it cut when you first tried it? Kevin It was just ok. It never really felt right. A trick when sharpening a flat ground edge (hollow ground works too but is different) is to paint the edge with magic marker or something similar and then remove some metal. This will allow you to see where you are grinding. I have shown this to folks and they were really suprised to find they were removing metal from the shoulder and not getting anywhere near the edge. This is ok if you're changing the edge geometry, but you are going to have to grind longer to get to the edge. For use older folks, a 10x loupe is a handy gadget too. Art Hey! Who are you calling "older?" LOL I actually have a 30x loop from my gold and jewelry buying days. I use it a lot.... that's how I knew I wasn't getting the angle right. Excellent idea with the marker. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sylvia Report post Posted February 27, 2012 I'm surprised no one has mentioned the"Big Red" roller guide that Chuck Smith sells. It comes with a 30 degree angle guide and accepts two sizes of blade shanks. I use this on every blade I sharpen. If you use the guide it's pretty hard to get it wrong! I used to sharpen free hand by "feel" but I've proven to myself that I can't even come close to getting a consistent angle and a flat plane on each side without the guide. Consequently I need to sharpen less that 1/2 as often as I used to. When I sharpen I use a 600 and 1200 diamond hone. Be sure you push the blade across the hone...don't drag it! Then I finish with 2000 grit sand paper and polish with green rouge. Barry's blades are made of tool steel and will provide years of service if prepared properly. With the exception of my LW I won't use anything but hollow ground blades. If you don't want to spend the money on a Big Red it is a pretty simple matter to drill out an inexpensive Tandy roller guide to fit your blade. Then you only need to figure out the angle. Hope this helps...... Bobby Thanks Bob. I didn't know Chuck Smith's had a jig that would work. It's nice to know that a pro like you had trouble with "free hand" sharpening of these too. That makes me feel a lot better. Does Chuck Smith's have a website or do I have to call them? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pete Report post Posted February 27, 2012 Thanks Bob. I didn't know Chuck Smith's had a jig that would work. It's nice to know that a pro like you had trouble with "free hand" sharpening of these too. That makes me feel a lot better. Does Chuck Smith's have a website or do I have to call them? Sylvia, look into a ceramic blade also. I have the the Chuck Smith LW and Henley blades and always go back to the ceramic. NEVER drags and I strop about once a week with a few passes on green rouge. pete Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sylvia Report post Posted February 27, 2012 Sylvia, look into a ceramic blade also. I have the the Chuck Smith LW and Henley blades and always go back to the ceramic. NEVER drags and I strop about once a week with a few passes on green rouge. pete Hi Pete. Can you please measure the shaft of your ceramic blades for me? BK blades are slightly larger than the standard shank. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pete Report post Posted February 27, 2012 Hi Pete. Can you please measure the shaft of your ceramic blades for me? BK blades are slightly larger than the standard shank. close as i can tell it's between 3/16 and 1/4, but it fits in all of my barrels. pete Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sylvia Report post Posted February 27, 2012 (edited) close as i can tell it's between 3/16 and 1/4, but it fits in all of my barrels. pete Thank you. Yep... standard size is 3/16... BK size is 7/32. Edited February 27, 2012 by Sylvia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eddie Collins Report post Posted March 5, 2012 I'm surprised no one has mentioned the"Big Red" roller guide that Chuck Smith sells. It comes with a 30 degree angle guide and accepts two sizes of blade shanks. I use this on every blade I sharpen. If you use the guide it's pretty hard to get it wrong! I used to sharpen free hand by "feel" but I've proven to myself that I can't even come close to getting a consistent angle and a flat plane on each side without the guide. Consequently I need to sharpen less that 1/2 as often as I used to. When I sharpen I use a 600 and 1200 diamond hone. Be sure you push the blade across the hone...don't drag it! Then I finish with 2000 grit sand paper and polish with green rouge. Barry's blades are made of tool steel and will provide years of service if prepared properly. With the exception of my LW I won't use anything but hollow ground blades. If you don't want to spend the money on a Big Red it is a pretty simple matter to drill out an inexpensive Tandy roller guide to fit your blade. Then you only need to figure out the angle. Hope this helps...... Bobby Yeah, Barry King makes blades for the Tandy swivel knives also. They work pretty good. I have a LW also, it is really smooth. I found some old swivel knife blades in a pawn shop, look like the ones from the 60's and 70's, they have a ring in the middle of the blade, similar to the Osborne swivel knife blade, so I used a small grinding sanding wheel and grind it to a hollow ground blade, sharpen the blade with a Tandy jig, buffed it with a felt wheel with some green rouge, it works very good. It looks pretty crude, but it sure carves good. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
