Vinegaroon Project Questions

[purplegraf]

Today is my first day as a member, so here goes…I've read most of the posts here about Vinegaroon, but have a few questions after a recent project that was not as successful as I hoped. I'll start by saying that patience IS a virtue, just not one of mine (!).

I wanted to change the color of a sandy beige Coach bag to black. The surface was in really bad shape with blotches that I suspected were shoe polish and areas that looked and felt like they had been rubbed raw with sandpaper! But I only paid $1.00 for it and it wasn't usable as it was, so it became my first Vinegaroon adventure.

First I gave the bag a bath in warm water and Extra Strength Dawn dishwashing liquid. A good soak and scrub with my hands. I stuffed the bag with towels for a day or so, then removed and let air dry. The bath had little effect on the spots. I did not use a conditioner as I expected the experiment to continue, either taking it to a cobbler for a dye job, or doing it myself.

I mixed up 2 gallons of vinegar with 4 #0000 steel wool pads, cleaned and shredded in each. Shook them up, vented the lids and sat them in the Florida sun for 2 days. On day 3 I strained the liquid and made a big, rusty mess in the process. I dunked the small leather Coach hang tag in the strained mixture and it turned a nice shade of brown through and through, although darker on the suede side.

Day 4 I let the mixture continue to brew in the sun.

Day 5 I brewed some strong black tea, soaked the bag, re-strained the brew and dunked the entire bag for about 20 minutes. Followed with a baking soda bath, about 1/8 cup of BS to a couple of inches of warm water in the kitchen sink, for less than a minute. Finished with clear water rinse. The result was a darker brown, now with black spots where I suspected the leather had been abraded. I worked in a fair amount of Lexol while damp and it did darken the brown.

Then I started reading about deglazing, thinking it might help the surface take the Vinegaroon. I made a mixture of about 1/8 cup real lemon to about a quart of denatured alcohol. I sprayed it on, worked it into the surface and let it sit a while. Then re-dunked the bag for about an hour. I repeated the quick baking soda bath, a little stronger this time, and finished with a clear water rinse. I let it air dry a while and started working in Lexol again. The brown is darker and richer, but still has black blotches.

I've continued to condition with Leather CPR and cleaned the rusty fil off the brass hardware with NEVR DULL. I now have a nice, supple, usable, although fashionably distressed leather bag!

I know my haste was probably the biggest issue, as I did not let the Vinegroon either absorb enough steel, and I just didn't let it brew long enough. I expect to be whacked with a big wet noodle for this.

Should I have deglazed earlier in the process? Should I have used acetone or something else?

Should I have just poured off the top of the Vinegaroon, rather than straining the sludge?

Was it a mistake to re-use the Vinegaroon?

Was my dunk time sufficient?

Before and after:

I thoroughly enjoyed this process and thank all of the contributors for sharing their amazing wealth of knowledge in this forum!

I would greatly appreciate anyone and everyone's input, as there is another project waiting in the wings…and I really want it to be black! Thanks in advance!

[TTcustom]

Awesome question and I am looking forward to what the experienced Vinegaroon users have to say.

Thanks for such a thorough and precise description of your process.

[HellfireJack]

I don't use vinegaroon at all but from what I've read on making the stuff you need to let the steel wool dissolve for at least a week or two.

When you brew vinegaroon you're creating a solution of ferric acetate. The longer it sits, the stronger that solution will be. I'm willing to bet your results were caused by too weak of a solution to start with as you suggest.

I think it looks great myself. I think you got pretty lucky even if it didn't turn out how you wanted.

[Sylvia]

I think I would have deglazed after cleaning with your soap and water. The deglazer takes of the manufacturer's finish.

I have my first vinegaroon brewing now and though it's hard to leave it alone, I tested it on day 2 on a piece of scrap. It turned grey. I also tested it on some "tree of heaven" pieces of wood and they turned black, indicating a good amount of tannin in the wood. Hmmm... maybe that is a use for this awful weed tree? Anyway... I only brewed about a pint and a half. (ragu bottle) So I think perhaps you made quite a lot. I hope you have a lot of things to dye because I hear it does lose it's dying strength after a while.... though I understand that sticking another pad of steel wool in the brew will bring it back to strength.

It does sound like you had a lot of fun making over this bag though and I like the distressed look.

Can't wait to see how your next project turns out.

[mlapaglia]

deglaze after clening. It might not do much for a commercial bag. Your vinegaroon is not old enough. It needs at least 2 weeks then strain and let it settle. It should turn the color of tea.

wait until the vinegeroon is ready then try it all again.

Michael

[WillAdams]

I use rust dissolved in vinegar for woodworking and I've found you can jump-start the solution by starting off w/ rusty objects --- the rusty old Brillo pad from the kitchen sink, flakes of body work from an old clunker... (or get a bit of iron oxide from the paint counter at your local hardware store).

Very nice, very understated result on the case. Agree the de-glazing should have been part of the cleaning.

[purplegraf]

Awesome question and I am looking forward to what the experienced Vinegaroon users have to say.

Thanks for such a thorough and precise description of your process.

I'm very much looking forward to any advice I can get from this forum...there are certainly a lot of talented, experienced folks here!

Thanks for your encouragement!

[purplegraf]

I don't use vinegaroon at all but from what I've read on making the stuff you need to let the steel wool dissolve for at least a week or two.

When you brew vinegaroon you're creating a solution of ferric acetate. The longer it sits, the stronger that solution will be. I'm willing to bet your results were caused by too weak of a solution to start with as you suggest.

I think it looks great myself. I think you got pretty lucky even if it didn't turn out how you wanted.

Thanks for your comments! I agree that I was a little (!) impatient, but over all, I'm satisfied with the result...one small step on a steep learning curve.

Thanks again.

[purplegraf]

I think I would have deglazed after cleaning with your soap and water. The deglazer takes of the manufacturer's finish.

I have my first vinegaroon brewing now and though it's hard to leave it alone, I tested it on day 2 on a piece of scrap. It turned grey. I also tested it on some "tree of heaven" pieces of wood and they turned black, indicating a good amount of tannin in the wood. Hmmm... maybe that is a use for this awful weed tree? Anyway... I only brewed about a pint and a half. (ragu bottle) So I think perhaps you made quite a lot. I hope you have a lot of things to dye because I hear it does lose it's dying strength after a while.... though I understand that sticking another pad of steel wool in the brew will bring it back to strength.

It does sound like you had a lot of fun making over this bag though and I like the distressed look.

Can't wait to see how your next project turns out.

Indeed, I made a big batch, as I wanted to dunk the entire bag...and the next project is a bigger Coach tote bag (16" x 10" x 4" or so).

As Coach uses "glove tanned" leather (think baseball gloves), should I use a different deglazer?

I googled "glove tanned leather deglazer" and found references to acetone, oxalic acid and a variety of commercial products.

Any recommendations or advice?

I started the first batch of vinegaroon on March 13 and have re-bottled it after using it on this project.

Can I continue to use it as is, or should I add more vinegar and steel wool and let it brew some more?

Although this project was a big mess at various stages, I am pleased with the result.

I hope you will post about your experiences and wish you luck. Thanks!

[purplegraf]

deglaze after clening. It might not do much for a commercial bag. Your vinegaroon is not old enough. It needs at least 2 weeks then strain and let it settle. It should turn the color of tea.

wait until the vinegeroon is ready then try it all again.

Michael

Looking back, I agree the deglazing should have been done earlier in the process.

Should I use a stronger deglazer? Any suggestions are greatly appreciated! Thanks!

[purplegraf]

I use rust dissolved in vinegar for woodworking and I've found you can jump-start the solution by starting off w/ rusty objects --- the rusty old Brillo pad from the kitchen sink, flakes of body work from an old clunker... (or get a bit of iron oxide from the paint counter at your local hardware store).

Very nice, very understated result on the case. Agree the de-glazing should have been part of the cleaning.

Thanks for your comments and compliments on my project.

The steel wool I used was in fact rusting in my hands as I was stuffing it into the vinegar bottles!

Would you please tell me what you use for deglazing and how you do it?

Thanks again!

[DoubleBarP]

Dont want to hijack the thread. If someone would be so kind. I would like to start my first batch vinegaroon. What kind of vinegar is best, and what type of container do you store it in? During the fermentation process are there any evaporation issues or any off gasing to be concerned about. I'm thinking of a large batch as I want to "dip" my next project and that will require a gallon on more...

I'm thinking of just a couple of gallons in a tupperwear container out in the shed to let it cook for awhile and then give it a try. Also what type of filter is best. Ie milk filters (I live in Dairy County) or coffee type...

Thanks for the "learnin"....

=P

[mlapaglia]

White cheap vinegar. Yes leave the lid loose, as it will gas a little. Any paper filter. I have used coffee or paper towels. Give it two weeks. Stir or shake once a day. after 2 weeks filter and let set for 24 hours to settle. then decant to a clean container with a tight lid.

[Sovran81]

Use as much steel wool as you can dissolve. IIRC I got 6 pads to dissolve in 1 gallon. If it still smells like vinegar add more steel wool. Strain it first before filtering, or you will be changing lots of coffee filters to filter 1/4 cup at a time. The amount of tannins in the leather do contribute to how black it will be even with the black tea/coffee pretreatment. I have had some leather that I had to finish with black shoe polish while other leather just a conditioner. I love the look you got on your bag. It has so much more character then just a black bag.

[Sylvia]

Dont want to hijack the thread. If someone would be so kind. I would like to start my first batch vinegaroon. What kind of vinegar is best, and what type of container do you store it in? During the fermentation process are there any evaporation issues or any off gasing to be concerned about. I'm thinking of a large batch as I want to "dip" my next project and that will require a gallon on more...

I'm thinking of just a couple of gallons in a tupperwear container out in the shed to let it cook for awhile and then give it a try. Also what type of filter is best. Ie milk filters (I live in Dairy County) or coffee type...

Thanks for the "learnin"....

=P

BarP... I found this tutorial on line that is pretty good.

http://graybear.com.au/vinegaroon-black-leather-dye/

Of course you can make any amount you want.

S

[DoubleBarP]

BarP... I found this tutorial on line that is pretty good.

http://graybear.com....ck-leather-dye/

Of course you can make any amount you want.

S

Thank you..

=P

[Sylvia]

Thank you..

=P

OMG ha ha ha ha.... I couldn't figure out why you kept sticking your tongue out as a signature. It just dawned on me that is "Double Bar P"

"Duh" LOL Very cool... do you sign your leather that way too?

[DoubleBarP]

OMG ha ha ha ha.... I couldn't figure out why you kept sticking your tongue out as a signature. It just dawned on me that is "Double Bar P"

"Duh" LOL Very cool... do you sign your leather that way too?

Sorry no disrespect intended.

Sticking my tongue out? Oh no... (guess I'm not versed in icons...).

In the late 50's - 70's my family was in the cattle business and that was our brand =P as in Double Bar P...

[Sylvia]

Sorry no disrespect intended.

Sticking my tongue out? Oh no... (guess I'm not versed in icons...).

In the late 50's - 70's my family was in the cattle business and that was our brand =P as in Double Bar P...

I didn't feel disrespected... I don't think any one else would either.

This " =P " in forums and chats is the same as this emoticon. ..

just like

=) is the same as

I think it's cool!!

[DoubleBarP]

I didn't feel disrespected... I don't think any one else would either.

This " =P " in forums and chats is the same as this emoticon. ..

just like

=) is the same as

I think it's cool!!

Guess I should just stick with DoubleBarP.... Starting to rethink the makers mark I ordered.... :-))))

[Sylvia]

Guess I should just stick with DoubleBarP.... Starting to rethink the makers mark I ordered.... :-))))

I wouldn't... you've got a built in logo!

[purplegraf]

I want to say "Thank You" to everyone who posted help for me on this thread!

Today, having been the 2-week anniversary of my vinegaroon brew, I did another bag.

I used an oxalic acid mix to deglaze after a general soap and water bath.

I brewed stronger tea and yikes, I think I'm on to something.

The pics below are before and after. It's still wet, with it's first coat of Lexol, drying darker all the time

I hope others will have as much fun with this as I did...Thanks again, everyone!