Help With Leather Sewing Machine Decision - Please!

[jcuk]

Help with leather sewing machine decision - Please!

Hello everyone!

I need some help deciding what to do about a machine. As I already own a Singer 45K which tends to sew too quickly for me. I have read on this forum about SERVO motors - So I looked on Youtube and watched some video and quite like the look ot them.

But even though I own the singer machine, I am still very much a novice with regards to threading and setting the tension.

Would a Servo Motor work on this old machine? And I am also considering purchasing a Tippmann Boss - which of course I can control the speed it sews and it seems a good machine to learn on - threading and tension. ( although I have read on this forum some people have had issues with this...)

I am based in the UK and my leather work consists of:

• Re-rubbering reins ( horse racing) which takes two hours by hand....But need to speed this up...
• Stitching and making bridles/ head collars (halters) - currently hand stitiching
• repair of race exercise saddles etc....

I have also seen various powered machines mentioned on this forum, ie TECHSEW, COBRA, COWBOY, etc... Being in the UK I am not sure about customer service and backup.

If anyone has advice for me I would be very greatful - or any other sugestions about machines I have not mentioned....

Many thanks

JC in the UK

[Wizcrafts]

I am sure that a servo motor will help you control your 45k. Most will bold right into the old holes from the clutch motor. However, you may need to change to a shorter v-belt, depending on the difference in the sizes of the motor pulley and the height from the centerline of the output shaft to the underside of the table. Some clutch motors sit further down than newer servos. Once you find a servo you are interested in, contact the dealer and ask them to measure from the top of the motor mounts to the center of the shaft. Measure the same distance on your existing motor. If they are almost the same, only the difference in motor pulleys will come into play. For every inch or centimeter that the pulley is smaller on the servo than on the clutch motor, subtract the same amount when ordering a new v-belt.

Example:

The old motor shaft axis sits 5" below the table and new servo sits just 4" down. Old motor has a 3" pulley, while new one has a 2" pulley.

Subtract 1 inch for the new motor being closer to the body and another inch for the new smaller diameter pulley. Order a 3 inch shorter belt than what is on the machine now.

Of course, being across the pond you will need a 220 volt, single phase motor. I do believe that most of our dealers on the forum have 220v motors. You will want at least a half horsepower servo. 3/4 HP is even better for heavy sewing. Most servos have push button speed limiters, but there are still some with a pot on them. I prefer to turn a knob to change top speed, rather than playing wack-a-mole with up-down button sequences.

[jcuk]

Wizcrafts,

Thank you so much for getting back to me so quickly....

My Singer machine is currently in storage, although hoping to get it out soon, have it serviced and I will get the guy to maybe implement the changes you have suggested. Or do you think I would be better trading this old machine in and purchasing something newer?

[Wizcrafts]

Wizcrafts,

Thank you so much for getting back to me so quickly....

My Singer machine is currently in storage, although hoping to get it out soon, have it serviced and I will get the guy to maybe implement the changes you have suggested. Or do you think I would be better trading this old machine in and purchasing something newer?

If the machine is already in storage, try to sell it locally. A new 441 clone will out-perform the 45k many times over.

[Anne Bonnys Locker]

Hey Wiz, without doubt the 441 clone will make the 45k look ordinary but remember that these machines were the main harness machine for the best part of 70 years! Sure, the Pearson no6 was the saddlery machine for the heavy stuff but the 45k was and still is a fine machine.

In an ideal world a 441 or a 205 clone would sit in the center of everyone's workshop but there is still room for the 45k/GA5. Every saddler I know has at least half a tonne of cast iron in his/her workshop and for the person doing lighter work I suspect we are being a bit heavy handed telling them to get rid of the older machines.

I intend no disrespect here to your experience and knowledge - which are way beyond my meager abilities - but I think we often need to consider where people are actually starting from with their own experience and needs.

[Wizcrafts]

Hey Wiz, without doubt the 441 clone will make the 45k look ordinary but remember that these machines were the main harness machine for the best part of 70 years! Sure, the Pearson no6 was the saddlery machine for the heavy stuff but the 45k was and still is a fine machine.

snip

I had a 45k(25?) for a couple of years and found it not up to snuff for the projects I was making. It had a roller foot. The OP is not using his machine right now, so it seemed reasonable to suggest selling it to help buy something with compound feed.

[jcuk]

Thanks Wizcraft, for your advice...

I did suspect that it would be possibly better to try and sell this machine. I think I had already come to this conclusion myself but needed some good advice...

Anne thanks for your imput, I think you are right about it being a good machine, which is why I purchased it several years ago. But have never really got on with the machine, and I also know

that it is a highly regarded machine here in the UK as well as around the world with saddlers. The reason I am looking for a newer machine is the fact I am hoping they will be easier to use and control.

Could I trouble the pair of you or anyone, to look at the link below and offer their opinion of this machine. The price with shipping is around £150 pounds ( $239) more than the Tippmann Boss with all the attachments and accessories Which I would order with the machine.

http://www.ebay.co.u...=item35baab6034

Thanks again, looking forward to your response

JC UK

[Cobra Steve]

Thanks Wizcraft, for your advice...

I did suspect that it would be possibly better to try and sell this machine. I think I had already come to this conclusion myself but needed some good advice...

Anne thanks for your imput, I think you are right about it being a good machine, which is why I purchased it several years ago. But have never really got on with the machine, and I also know

that it is a highly regarded machine here in the UK as well as around the world with saddlers. The reason I am looking for a newer machine is the fact I am hoping they will be easier to use and control.

Could I trouble the pair of you or anyone, to look at the link below and offer their opinion of this machine. The price with shipping is around £150 pounds ( $239) more than the Tippmann Boss with all the attachments and accessories Which I would order with the machine.

http://www.ebay.co.u...=item35baab6034

Thanks again, looking forward to your response

Edited April 17, 2012 by Cobra Steve

[Cobra Steve]

Hi jcuk. We have been shipping Internationally for 3 years now. We ship worldwide and have very reasonable rates. Please contact me regarding shipping a 220V COBRA Class 4 to you. Thanks, Steve

P.S. Sorry for the error on the above post.Steve

Edited April 17, 2012 by Cobra Steve

[CowboyBob]

While it does look like a real nice machine,I've sold them & different needle plates for sewing things like stirrups,holsters & etc along with the feet are not available.They will just barely sew the 15mm & it would have to be a soft leather only.I'm not saying this beacuse I sell them but the feet,plates & any other spares are much easier to buy & lower price than for this machine.

Also the 441 style of machine will sew much heavy & feed better.There should be some used Juki or clone 441's over there for sale.If I were I would wait for one.

Bob

[busted]

I agree with Wizcraft I would get rid of the 45 for a 441 or a 205. I would not buy the cobra machine offered from the USofA either. The machine you have the link to on ebay is not want you need either. It is known as a "ruffler" it will do the same thing the 45 is doing it will mess up the bottom of your project because it too has very aggressive feed dogs. I would look for a local machine of the 441 or 205 variety that is located in your part of the world. Personally I would get the 441 like sewmun suggests.

Thanks Wizcraft, for your advice...

I did suspect that it would be possibly better to try and sell this machine. I think I had already come to this conclusion myself but needed some good advice...

Anne thanks for your imput, I think you are right about it being a good machine, which is why I purchased it several years ago. But have never really got on with the machine, and I also know

that it is a highly regarded machine here in the UK as well as around the world with saddlers. The reason I am looking for a newer machine is the fact I am hoping they will be easier to use and control.

Could I trouble the pair of you or anyone, to look at the link below and offer their opinion of this machine. The price with shipping is around £150 pounds ( $239) more than the Tippmann Boss with all the attachments and accessories Which I would order with the machine.

http://www.ebay.co.u...=item35baab6034

Thanks again, looking forward to your response

JC UK

[Anne Bonnys Locker]

As I said, in an ideal world the 441 or 205 is the ducks guts.

[jcuk]

Thanks everyone, for looking at the link and your input to my problem. There are lots of things to think about. Does anyone know of a 441 or 205 clone this side of the pond ( England) - names and manufactures. I can maybe source here in the UK which would cut shipping costs on such a heavy item. I know highlead maybe a 441 clone, not sure of any other names here have tried searching online but not sure of another names that are 441 and 205 clones over here.

Thanks again

JC UK

[jcuk]

Thanks everyone, for looking at the link and your input to my problem. There are lots of things to think about. Does anyone know of a 441 or 205 clone this side of the pond ( England) - names and manufactures. I can maybe source here in the UK which would cut shipping costs on such a heavy item. I know highlead maybe a 441 clone, not sure of any other names here have tried searching online but not sure of another names that are 441 and 205 clones over here.

Thanks again

JC UK

Hello again everyone,I have been searching high and low during the last few days for a 441/205 clone. I have found this : Could you please confirm this is what I think it is and does anyone know about the company or machine. Here is the link >>

http://cowboysew.maxtrader.eu/uk/1,2,1,32596,3,0,-1,-1,0,33907,0/Best+saddle+and+harness+sewing+machine.html

Any further feedback would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks again...

JC UK

[Andrew Chee]

Not sure if this is important to you but through my research I have found that Adler 205s have more different types of presser feet and attachments available to them (piping feet and binder attachments). 441s Generally have the standard feet available. 205s also have suspending guides available but I have not been able to figure one out for my 441 clone yet (it does have a swing away guide though).

Not sure if those things are important to you but just FYI.

Andrew

[Spinner]

Hello again everyone,I have been searching high and low during the last few days for a 441/205 clone. I have found this : Could you please confirm this is what I think it is and does anyone know about the company or machine. Here is the link >>

http://cowboysew.max...ng+machine.html

Any further feedback would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks again...

JC UK

The Cowboy machines are also good 441/205 clones, in fact our own Bob at Toledo Sewing is a USA dealer of them. Issues I see with that listing: first it is for the head only so you'd need to source the table, motor, etc. separately. Second is that it looks to be a drop ship from the factory which means it will not be set up to sew out of the box so you'll need to be versed in the initial set-up, which most folks are not.

Cheers,

Chris

[Wizcrafts]

According to Bob, at Toledo Industrial Sewing Machines, the Cowboy 441 clones, such as my Cowboy CB4500, ship from China with a blanket foot set with teeth, including a feeder with teeth. The dealer is responsible for changing to a harness foot set, with a smooth feed dog. I do not know if this is still the same situation when you buy direct from China.

All Cowboy machines are sold as is, with the dealer who imports them handling servicing. If you import the machine from China, you will become your own dealer and mechanic.

If you buy a machine from a dealer in the USA, it will already be setup for sewing leather, with the harness feet and smooth feed dog. It will have been adjusted and timed and sewn off. It will arrive threaded, with a sample of the leather under the foot.

[jcuk]

Not sure if this is important to you but through my research I have found that Adler 205s have more different types of presser feet and attachments available to them (piping feet and binder attachments). 441s Generally have the standard feet available. 205s also have suspending guides available but I have not been able to figure one out for my 441 clone yet (it does have a swing away guide though).

Not sure if those things are important to you but just FYI.

Andrew

Thanks Andrew For your help here as you may have gathered i maybe out of depth concerning sewing machines,so please forgive my ignorance thats why i joined Leatherworker.net.To get good advice everyone so far has given me food for thought which all will help in the long run.

Kindest regards

JC UK

[jcuk]

The Cowboy machines are also good 441/205 clones, in fact our own Bob at Toledo Sewing is a USA dealer of them. Issues I see with that listing: first it is for the head only so you'd need to source the table, motor, etc. separately. Second is that it looks to be a drop ship from the factory which means it will not be set up to sew out of the box so you'll need to be versed in the initial set-up, which most folks are not.

Cheers,

Chris

Thanks SpinnerFor your help yes i suspected it was only the head getting table,motor not a problem set up yes a will be but do know a guy who will do this i think.But back up from the company maybe so may pass up on this one.Glad to see i am finally getting to find 441 clones this side of the pond.Just have to find right one.

[jcuk]

According to Bob, at Toledo Industrial Sewing Machines, the Cowboy 441 clones, such as my Cowboy CB4500, ship from China with a blanket foot set with teeth, including a feeder with teeth. The dealer is responsible for changing to a harness foot set, with a smooth feed dog. I do not know if this is still the same situation when you buy direct from China.

All Cowboy machines are sold as is, with the dealer who imports them handling servicing. If you import the machine from China, you will become your own dealer and mechanic.

If you buy a machine from a dealer in the USA, it will already be setup for sewing leather, with the harness feet and smooth feed dog. It will have been adjusted and timed and sewn off. It will arrive threaded, with a sample of the leather under the foot.

Thanks WizcraftFor all your help here, yes back from dealers should be very vital to anyone buying such expensive item myself included as i said to Spinner Think i will pass this one by Good to i see maybe able to find a 441/205 clone this side of the pond.

Thanks again John

Thanks WizcraftFor all your help here, yes back from dealers should be very vital to anyone buying such expensive item myself included as i said to Spinner Think i will pass this one by Good to i see maybe able to find a 441/205 clone this side of the pond.

Thanks again John

Sorry Wizcraft should read back up from dealers

Thanks again John

[jcuk]

Thanks WizcraftFor all your help here, yes back from dealers should be very vital to anyone buying such expensive item myself included as i said to Spinner Think i will pass this one by Good to i see maybe able to find a 441/205 clone this side of the pond.

Thanks again John

Sorry Wizcraft should read back up from dealers

Thanks again John

Hi folksCan anyone please tell me if a Tippmann Boss would sew rubber rein grips as used in the horse racing industry reason i ask there i a private seller here.

Thanks again John.