Why Does This Keep Happening !

[Anacott Steel]

Hi guys / gals. I am trying to pin point the reason that die will not take in certain areas. You can see from the attached that the die has trouble taking in a few places towards the edge. I'm talking about the marks that look like the leather was scratched post dying and the color has come off.

So I've tried :

1. Fiebings Die Prep - I originally assumed that it was my grubby fingers preventing the die from penetrating but I used the prep (and I've tried saddle soap as well in the past) - no joy.

2. I airbrush the die on - so thought maybe that was the problem - but even applying the die with a dauber over those areas didnt help

3. Various dies - EcoFlo, Fiebings (both spirit and oil based).

I can only assume that

1. I am damaging the leather somehow when cutting / sewing (as it seems always to occur towards the edge of my leather) or

2. that im still not getting the oils from my fingers off the leather even though I have washed the leather with prep/saddle soap.

As it doesnt occur in the middle of my projects im going to assume that the leather itself is ok quality.

sorry for the long post but if anyone else has had this problem (and better yet a solution !) I would love to know.

thanks folks.

[particle]

So you're saying you went back over those areas with a dauber and the dye still didn't take?

What kind of sewing machine are you using? Is it possible you're scratching it up when curling it to pass through the machine?

Does it look okay before you sew it?

[oldtimer]

It looks like scratches !

/ knut

[benlilly1]

This may be a stupid question but are you sure it's veg-tan leather? Also if you have used any contact cement around your work area I know that will stop dye penetration.

[Sylvia]

I have never EVER heard of cleaning the leather before dying with saddle soap... Fiebings has a dye prep cleaner that is basically water and sudsy ammonia and clear booze. You are supposed to clean the piece with it and dye immediately.

But I tend to agree with Benilly... that looks like glue or something that resists dye.

[Bluesman]

Fiebings has a dye prep cleaner that is basically water and sudsy ammonia and clear booze.

So, if I clean my leather with this stuff and have glass of ice near by I can drink it too? Who knew, who knew. Thanks for the tip

[Sylvia]

So, if I clean my leather with this stuff and have glass of ice near by I can drink it too? Who knew, who knew. Thanks for the tip

ha ha ha... NO.. ammonia is poisonous! But if you do make your own... a half gallon of Everclear, some sudsy ammonia and mostly water... you could have your dye prep... and plenty of Everclear booze to make cocktails with.

The ratio is something like 90% water, 6% everclear... the rest sudsy ammonia. The Safety sheet was pretty vague... and said "ammonia and proprietary soap" ummm yeah "sudsy ammonia" ha!

I paid $16 for a bottle of the stuff from Fiebings... heck I could have made my own! (I will be when this runs out actually)

[Bluesman]

I use everclear to make peppermint schnapps. Now another use. Cheers

[Anacott Steel]

Hey guys.

Yep i kinda layed it on thick with the dauber !

Hand sewn with wax thread. Im wondering if it's the wax causing the problem (me touching the thread and then holding the leather) - i tried sewing this project before i died it. (hey don't tut tut me I'm still experimenting / learning !).

Definitely veg-tan.

Ok Sylvia I was desperate ! And was happy to experiment with the soap - and I have read elsewhere that people have washed before dying. I used the die prep and apart from knocking me out from the toxic ammonia smell it didn't seem to help. Bluesman drink this and you will be feeling blue. Or is it green.

anyway I really appreciate your comments. Definitely something I'm doing wrong and it sounds like no one else is having this problem. Given I went for a dirty brown look, it actually doesn't look too bad in real life - its just that I want to be the one that decides whether the leather should have this "effect" !

Cheers and bless you all..

[Sylvia]

Hey guys.

Yep i kinda layed it on thick with the dauber !

Hand sewn with wax thread. Im wondering if it's the wax causing the problem (me touching the thread and then holding the leather) - i tried sewing this project before i died it. (hey don't tut tut me I'm still experimenting / learning !).

Definitely veg-tan.

Ok Sylvia I was desperate ! And was happy to experiment with the soap - and I have read elsewhere that people have washed before dying. I used the die prep and apart from knocking me out from the toxic ammonia smell it didn't seem to help. Bluesman drink this and you will be feeling blue. Or is it green.

anyway I really appreciate your comments. Definitely something I'm doing wrong and it sounds like no one else is having this problem. Given I went for a dirty brown look, it actually doesn't look too bad in real life - its just that I want to be the one that decides whether the leather should have this "effect" !

Cheers and bless you all..

It could have been the wax from the thread... I suppose. why don't you try running some waxed thread across a piece of undyed scrap... then try to dye it. See if it gives you the same issue. If it does then you'll know. Who knows you may have accidentally figured out a new way to create a cool affect.

[Anacott Steel]

1335475613[/url]' post='245355']

It could have been the wax from the thread... I suppose. why don't you try running some waxed thread across a piece of undyed scrap... then try to dye it. See if it gives you the same issue. If it does then you'll know. Who knows you may have accidentally figured out a new way to create a cool affect.

Thanks Sylvia. I'm going to do just that. (Should have thought of doing that first before i asked ! ) The more I think about it the more that seems like the likeliest culprit.

I really want to thank you and the other guys for your advice. I'm always amazed how generous the people in his forum are with their knowledge and for newbies like me it's a great help.

Thanks and bless you

[Sylvia]

(Should have thought of doing that first before i asked ! )

Nah... frustration and a minor freak out had come over you. As a beginner, no one can fault you for that or not thinking of doing a test like that. LOL We've ALL been there and some off us are still learning and re-learning things all the time. It's part of the fun of leather working, I think.

[Chief31794]

Looks to me like either some splatter from something or it was turned face down on a table or paper with glue on it. You might inspect your sewing machine and see if it has too much oil and maybe some of it is splattering while the machine is running. Could also be the leather you're using, try dyeing a piece of scrap without sewing and without getting it around any other chemicals and see if it is the result of poor tanning. If you find out what it is, then let us know it appears to be an excellent resist for highlight dyeing.

Ken

Edited April 27, 2012 by Chief31794

[particle]

I agree with the wax from the thread idea. That was my first thought, but I assumed the wax would be removed by your cleaning method. That, and your stitching was so consistent it looked machine sewn!

Have you given any thought to dying it prior to assembly? That's my typical workflow, and it allows me to use whatever color thread I want.

[Jimbob]

leather has been oil tanned or hot waxed, could be 50/50 veg tan chrome tan...dye is clearly resisted from leather....try other veg tan leather and you will see a difference!!

(airbrushing has same effect, but since you have tried to brush it on....I am sure its the leather!)

James

[chancey77]

Seems like the leather from me too:)

Bad leather or chrome will do this every time! I see a lot of posts from people with the same problem, I see this a lot in the holster section.

I would guess 100% not the right leather is the issue.

IT MUST ALWAYS BE VEG TAN! Anything else will do exactly what has happened to you.

[Anacott Steel]

I agree with the wax from the thread idea. That was my first thought, but I assumed the wax would be removed by your cleaning method. That, and your stitching was so consistent it looked machine sewn!

Have you given any thought to dying it prior to assembly? That's my typical workflow, and it allows me to use whatever color thread I want.

Hey Particle. The reason I had sewn it first was because I have been afflicted with a disease (it appears to be incurable) that renders me incapable of cutting out two pieces of leather, supposedly the same measurements, and assembling them so that the edges align. Bless me, but i just cant do it ! Soooo - i left a little extra around the edges and trimmed it. I thought by sewing it first, there would be no room for the pieces to move around when I was cutting it.

Next time I am going to do as you suggested, die first then sew. (Maybe cement the pieces to keep 'em in place while trimming the edges ?).

thanks for your advice.

[particle]

Since you're airbrushing the perimeter, you don't need to be super accurate with your cuts or the dye airbrushing. Airbrush it, glue it, then trim the edges flush as possible then sand them smooth. Bevel the edges, then sew it up! Put a good coat of oil on it, dye & burnish your edges, then seal it. That's pretty much what works for me on my holsters.

[Sylvia]

Hey Particle. The reason I had sewn it first was because I have been afflicted with a disease (it appears to be incurable) that renders me incapable of cutting out two pieces of leather, supposedly the same measurements, and assembling them so that the edges align. Bless me, but i just cant do it ! Soooo - i left a little extra around the edges and trimmed it. I thought by sewing it first, there would be no room for the pieces to move around when I was cutting it.

Next time I am going to do as you suggested, die first then sew. (Maybe cement the pieces to keep 'em in place while trimming the edges ?).

thanks for your advice.

Anacott... you might try Chancey's trick. Align and punch your first hole, then use a tiny zip tie to hold it while you align and punch your second hole... etc., etc., etc.

http://www.9thtee.com/zipties.htm

[LNLeather]

Anacott... you might try Chancey's trick. Align and punch your first hole, then use a tiny zip tie to hold it while you align and punch your second hole... etc., etc., etc.

http://www.9thtee.com/zipties.htm

Sylvia - Thanks for that link!

[Sylvia]

Sylvia - Thanks for that link!

he he he... you are welcome Cheryl. I link because I care....

and because I wasn't sure an Aussie would know what a zip tie is. ha!

[Don Ayres]

I agree in trying it on better quality leather.

[idlewilder]

Hey Particle. The reason I had sewn it first was because I have been afflicted with a disease (it appears to be incurable) that renders me incapable of cutting out two pieces of leather, supposedly the same measurements, and assembling them so that the edges align. Bless me, but i just cant do it ! Soooo - i left a little extra around the edges and trimmed it. I thought by sewing it first, there would be no room for the pieces to move around when I was cutting it.

Next time I am going to do as you suggested, die first then sew. (Maybe cement the pieces to keep 'em in place while trimming the edges ?).

thanks for your advice.

I'm not an experienced leatherworker, but from what I've seen and read, I was under the impression that it's a pretty normal workflow to dye, sew, trim, and then touch-up the edges. I'm currently planning a messenger bag, and I'm still debating on whether I want to dye it, but this is what I was planning to do if I ended up dying it.

[Anacott Steel]

It could have been the wax from the thread... I suppose. why don't you try running some waxed thread across a piece of undyed scrap... then try to dye it. See if it gives you the same issue. If it does then you'll know. Who knows you may have accidentally figured out a new way to create a cool affect.

Hey Sylvia - I finally got round to testing this. It was definitely the result of using waxed thread pre-dying. The latest attached was sewn post dying (but pre-sealing) and I can clearly see my chubby waxed paw prints all over it....

Many thanks to all of you for your advice and help

cheers

Don

[Sylvia]

Hey Sylvia - I finally got round to testing this. It was definitely the result of using waxed thread pre-dying. The latest attached was sewn post dying (but pre-sealing) and I can clearly see my chubby waxed paw prints all over it....

Many thanks to all of you for your advice and help

cheers

Don

glad you figured it out. I always dye first then stitch now.