Motors?

[ChimeraKennels]

Wiz,

My comments were not intended to be "suggestions" to others...but only an expression of some thoughts and questions. In doing some research about older machines, I noticed that many people that have obtained old machines updated their machines with servo motors. I believe you even updated your National 300 from a 1/3rd hp clutch motor to a higher rating servo motor (1/2 hp I believe but I don't recall for sure). I don't know why you did...but I recall that. I also recall seeing that if you were to compare a servo motor to a clutch motor of equal ratings, generally speaking the clutch motor offered more power while the servo motor offered more control. Now, is this always true??? I have no idea. I am hoping my 1/3rd hp clutch motor will power through everything I need (for now), but after all the machine and motor were made in 1965...and I suspect it is the original motor. So, I posted this not to make suggestions to others...but only to open a topic to converse on a matter and my thoughts and questions about motors in general.

Being I was able to control the speed well of this clutch motor, I can tell it isn't the high speed type. I have seen some of those in action. Very intimidating to use for someone like me. My comments above about the slow clutch motors that run 1725 rpm (half the speed of some) and being used with a small pulley doesn't require a sewing machine genius to realize that this means less speed (which is easier to control for someone like me). Is it enough to offer the control that I or someone else desires...I HAVE NO IDEA. Maybe my current clutch motor is a lucky fluke. That is where experience would come into play...but that is why I posted the topic. Who knows...maybe I will be lucky and won't need a motor at all.

Unfortunately, I see this topic is an apparently sensitive issue...and people are attacking one another when in my opinion that isn't beneficial to anyone. People should be able to discuss matters without it being a tape measuring contest IMO. If someone has a good idea...great. If not, explain why it is not. My belief is to let the topic stand for the merit of the post...and leave the tape measuring on the sewing desk. If I stepped on your toes or anyone else's...well, my apologies. I realize you know your machines...and I have frequently stated, I am a rookie at this sewing stuff.

That said, regardless of my experience, I notice that motor issues are something a lot of people have had issues with, so I expressed a thought only as a question...not a suggestion. The only suggestions I recall blatantly making really had nothing to do with the machine, but a lever and fulcrum...something I understand VERY well...and that was an elementary suggestion at that...which was to move the connecting rod of the servo motor closer to the fulcrum on a peddle so the foot throttle would move the "trigger" more gradually...thereby reducing its sensitivity...but again that suggestion has nothing to do with motors specifically...and was on another topic.

If I am wrong, so be it. If I'm not wrong...well...its just a thought from someone.

I am not interested in stepping on anyone toes, and I certainly have appreciated your help. I hope you are wiling to continue to offer your help in the future.

Edited June 5, 2012 by ChimeraKennels

[Wizcrafts]

Chimera;

The short effective range of travel on the current generation of servo motors is a manufacturing problem. We can try to trick out the control levers, but that is just masking the real problem: poor light beam controls, or components.that are out of the design tolerance range, or are just marginal. It wouldn't be so bad of a problem if there were trimpots that the dealers could adjust to fine tune the range of motion to the widest range with lots of slow speed control. Unfortunately, that is not how they are made at this time. Right now, these OEM motors are like a box of chocolates: ya don't know whatcher gonna ge-et.

[ChimeraKennels]

You posted while I was editing my post. My main point isn't the leverage thing. I only mention that only because it was the only suggestion I have made here. My intention on this topic was not about making suggestions, but was to gather more information about motors. My reason for bringing this up prematurely (before I have a problem with my motor) is because I am reassembling the unit...and if I have a motor problem I don't want a lot of down time doing research about motors.

To be "point blank" and clear...my question is...if I have issues with my motor (since it is old) after reassembling the unit...could I expect a new 1/2 hp clutch motor with the low rpm speed (1725) and a small pulley to offer the same control I have with my old clutch motor?

[ChimeraKennels]

Before dissembling and transporting the unit home...when I tested my unit, I was able to go both fast or slow. I am only waiting on my table top now to be back into action. Everything else is done.

[Wizcrafts]

You posted while I was editing my post. My main point isn't the leverage thing. I only mention that only because it was the only suggestion I have made here. My intention on this topic was not about making suggestions, but was to gather more information about motors. My reason for bringing this up prematurely (before I have a problem with my motor) is because I am reassembling the unit...and if I have a motor problem I don't want a lot of down time doing research about motors.

To be "point blank" and clear...my question is...if I have issues with my motor (since it is old) after reassembling the unit...could I expect a new 1/2 hp clutch motor with the low rpm speed (1725) and a small pulley to offer the same control I have with my old clutch motor?

You may or may not have to burn in a new clutch motor to get the same ease of control you have with the old motor. Some people sand the clutch disks, others may spray on a light lube, to help glaze the fresh surface. Eventually, the clutch will behave the way your old one does. Some clutch motors will feather smoothly right out of the box.

With a clutch motor you have an adjuster nut and bolt on the output end of the casing. Tightening it brings the clutch action on sooner and vice-versa. You can back off the bolt to have more free play before the clutch engages. As the clutch wears in, you can screw in the adjuster bolt to compensate.

[Wizcrafts]

I am tired of discussing motors for now. Let's not worry about what-ifs, until they actually occur. Get to know your motor and machine and learn to sew well with it. Get the knots in the middle and keep the right distance from the edges.

If the motor you got with your Pfaff has not been over-used, or abused, it may have years of life in it. If it was good enough for the original owner, who almost cried when he sold it to you, it will be good enough for you.

[Trox]

Hi all,

We should not be afraid to give some constructional critics of the equipment. The Chinese will not use one dollar more to improve their motors, if they do not have to. Sewing machine shops in Norway do not sell their machine with low priced motors. Very much of the sewing experience is related to the motor. Most of the Dürkopp Adler’s sold here has Efka DC stop motors with pneumatic fixing, backtacking, foot lift and position. Sewing on them is a dream, but any sewing machine would be with this setup. (Almost). If I was, a dealer I would at least offered the 441 clone with a choice of a professional motor; like the Ho sing, Efka, Seiko and more. It deserves and needs it.

I am able to stop my brushless cobra motor on a quarter of a stitch, but after I changed it over to an other machine, I got an issue with it. It sews a couple of extra stitches after the power is shut of. I have checked my connections, it is all like before this issue started. Is this also related to this light switch? Some ideas?

I see that Greg from Keystone offers a nice selection of motor for his machines. I want to ask him about the Ho sing motor that costs 475 $, how does this compare to the Efka 1550, or to the older Dc 1600?

A strong position motor do not need a speed reducer on the 441, you will save some dollar there. A low-priced servo and a speed reducer will be about 300 $, the Ho Sing is 475 $, that is only 175 $ more. The Ho Sing is a professional motor with a good reputation. Gregg if you follow this tread, please give us your opinion on this.

Thanks

I too has been “lucky” with a clutch motor, my new 441 clone comes with an ISM 600 Watt clutch motor and no reducer. I have no problem sewing thick leather slow on it. I was planning to change it. Only a pro position motor will work better than this.

Trox

[ChimeraKennels]

I am tired of discussing motors for now. Let's not worry about what-ifs, until they actually occur. Get to know your motor and machine and learn to sew well with it. Get the knots in the middle and keep the right distance from the edges.

If the motor you got with your Pfaff has not been over-used, or abused, it may have years of life in it. If it was good enough for the original owner, who almost cried when he sold it to you, it will be good enough for you.

I have a few issues with it from time to time with my thickest stuff, but I don't know if it is a penetration issue...or if it is a tension issue on my thread...as the thread is getting torn up when I sew the thick stuff. I still have some learning to do. I thought I had resolved the issue...but no, I haven't. I think both my tensions may be too tight with the thicker thread, but before I loosened them both, I decided to remove my feed dog to dremel it a bit...as I noticed a few rough edges around the hole. I ordered a new feed dog from Bob today to replace this one...but for now, the dremel will suffice and I will give it a try again with the tensions eased up a bit. Will see if the 1/3rd hp motor will pull through for me then.

The reason I think the tension is too tight is I put a drop of oil on the old pressure plates and it ran fine for a while...but I guess enough thread ran through to "dry it out" and I started having some issues again.

[Northmount]

I have a few issues with it from time to time with my thickest stuff, but I don't know if it is a penetration issue...or if it is a tension issue on my thread...as the thread is getting torn up when I sew the thick stuff.

The reason I think the tension is too tight is I put a drop of oil on the old pressure plates and it ran fine for a while...but I guess enough thread ran through to "dry it out" and I started having some issues again.

Are you using lubricated thread? If not, try it. Oil on the tension plates was probably lubricating your thread. Lubricated thread makes it easier for the needle to punch through, and helps with pulling the thread up. There are some other posts on LW about lubricated thread.

CTG

[ChimeraKennels]

I don't think so. I ordered "138" thread in black and tan...but didn't specify if it was to be lubricated or not.

I just got done cleaning up the minute burrs on the feed dog (although most were on the top and not really where the thread would contact)...but that didn't help any. I put everything back together...ran the machine and it still broke.

It appears to get a lot of twists in it when it fails, but I can't tell if the twisting is the cause or if it is a secondary effect.