Need Some Help.

[MattyBoy]

Hello All!!

I'm new here and have gotten intrested in making Holsters from seeing Particle's videos on you tube. I made one holster already not very good but I'm proud to call it mine. Need to get some propper tools. The Question I have is I want to make a Foward molded pancake style holster, but I'm not sure how to do that. Is it done with the moldng process or when making the peices? thanks for any help.

Matthew

[Bluesman]

From the pictures it looks like the gun in "A" was twisted in the holster and then molded. The Gun in "B" was left flat and molded. I would guess you accomplish this in the molding stage. So you choose what yoy want after you complete the holster assembly.

[George B]

The forward Holster should have more leather on the outside piece than the inside piece, allowing the back to remain fairly flat and the molding primarily on the front. I have not made many and am far from an expert.

I cut the back to the size I wanted and the front oversized and longer on the ears.

I wet the front piece and using my fingers and a vacume bag to form it how I want around the weapon.

I mark the leather against the back with the weapon in it for cutting off the excess.

Mark my stitch lines and then allow it to dry.

Once dry, I glue it together and then sew it. Sand, dye, edge, burnish and then re-wet the entire thing and form and bone it.

Depending on the front sight you may need to make a tunnel to accommodate it.

There are a lot of tutorials here with a wide array of how others do it that are probably easier.

Hope this helps a little, like I wrote...I ain't no expert.

[Dwight]

Matty, . . . PM me with a normal email address, . . . I'll send you the info I share with my students in holster making class.

May God bless,

Dwight

[chiefjason]

I can tell you this. If you try with your standard pattern you will likely end up with the gun in a bit of an odd position in the holster. I tried one where I twisted it and the gun ended up in a different position than was preferable. It sat great on the hip though. And that's another thing, I hardly ever carry at 3:00, right on the hip, unless I am open carrying. If I'm concealing it's back behind the hip. Just a thought. So, depending on the holster position on the waist, you could be trying to solve a problem that does not exist.

[Retired LE]

Re: I wet the front piece and using my fingers and a vacuum bag to form it how I want around the weapon.

I read your post and noticed your reference to the vacuum bag. I am in the process of trying to put together my own vacuum forming system (without spending the big bucks if possible).

I have a pretty good idea how the system works and the components needed - but I am running into problems with selecting a vacuum pump. From what I have read, the hand held vacuum pumps take forever to reach a level of vacuum that will mold leather, and the wood veneer units are prohibitively expensive. In the middle of the price range are the electric vacuum pumps available from Harbor Freight. I purchased one of those yesterday (see attached pic) and after setting it up, I noticed it emits an oil mist out the exhaust while running. That might be ok for a mechanic working on AC system in a garage - but it's unacceptable for in home leatherworking - not to mention potential health issues.

So anyway, to avoid becoming long winded here.... I was wondering what system you are using.

Thanks for reading,

Mike

Edit: After posting this I realized i probably just hijacked this thread and should have started a new thread? Perhaps the moderators will step in and adjust accordingly?

Edited July 5, 2012 by Retired LE

[Denster]

I read your post and noticed your reference to the vacuum bag. I am in the process of trying to put together my own vacuum forming system (without spending the big bucks if possible).

I have a pretty good idea how the system works and the components needed - but I am running into problems with selecting a vacuum pump. From what I have read, the hand held vacuum pumps take forever to reach a level of vacuum that will mold leather, and the wood veneer units are prohibitively expensive. In the middle of the price range are the electric vacuum pumps available from Harbor Freight. I purchased one of those yesterday (see attached pic) and after setting it up, I noticed it emits an oil mist out the exhaust while running. That might be ok for a mechanic working on AC system in a garage - but it's unacceptable for in home leatherworking - not to mention potential health issues.

So anyway, to avoid becoming long winded here.... I was wondering what system you are using.

Thanks for reading,

Mike

Edit: After posting this I realized i probably just hijacked this thread and should have started a new thread? Perhaps the moderators will step in and adjust accordingly?

That is the same pump I use. The oil mist is from a slight overfill and will go away shortly. If you have not yet purchased a bag let me suggest that you invest in the poly rather than vynal. The poly lasts almost forever and works a hundred times better for molding holsters than the vynal and allows for boning the details through the bag.

[Retired LE]

That is the same pump I use. The oil mist is from a slight overfill and will go away shortly. If you have not yet purchased a bag let me suggest that you invest in the poly rather than vynal. The poly lasts almost forever and works a hundred times better for molding holsters than the vynal and allows for boning the details through the bag.

Ok thanks. I didn't realize there might be a break in period for this pump. The instructions were rather sketchy.

I lieu of a vinyl or poly bag, I am going to experiment with a used inner tube that I picked up for free from the local tire store.

I am working on an idea using pvc tubing to use as clamps/sealers on the cut ends. I also made up a vacuum hose using quick disconnect air fittings and a schrader valve fitting.

Only problem I can see initially is that I won't be able to see through my homemade bag to see what needs to be molded - but I think the outline should be distinct enough.

Will see how that works out.

PS: Where did you get your bag and how much was it?

Edited July 5, 2012 by Retired LE

[UberSquid]

Ok thanks. I didn't realize there might be a break in period for this pump. The instructions were rather sketchy.

I lieu of a vinyl or poly bag, I am going to experiment with a used inner tube that I picked up for free from the local tire store.

I am working on an idea using pvc tubing to use as clamps/sealers on the cut ends. I also made up a vacuum hose using quick disconnect air fittings and a schrader valve fitting.

Only problem I can see initially is that I won't be able to see through my homemade bag to see what needs to be molded - but I think the outline should be distinct enough.

Will see how that works out.

PS: Where did you get your bag and how much was it?

I have done a lot of vacuum bagging with composite layups, never for leather though. While my experience is in laying up fiberglass, Kevlar and carbon fiber I'm sure that a few of the basic rules and tricks will apply here.

In composite layups the choice of bag material is critical to the layup. The bag must be thick and firm enough to support the material over the form but thin and flexible enough to conform to the contours of the form as well. If the bag is too thin you get a poor finish and possibly voids in the layup. If it's too thick you can get voids where the bag was unable to follow the contours of the form or mold. This would make your inner tube bag unusable for most composite layups since I doubt that it would conform well to anything but the most simple of shapes.

The other big issue is, as you said, you can't see through it. As you apply vacuum the bag and your material tends to distort in unpredictable ways. With composites you must constantly adjust and work out the wrinkles as the vacuum comes up (or down as the case may be) to avoid creases in your finished product. You may also wind up with your material slipping on the mold or form. Obviously leather isn't going to be as touchy but you may still run into problems.

One thing that we do with composites that I don't think that people do with leather is to provide a breather layer in the bag. Usually the composite is placed over the form, a material that will not stick to the cured epoxy is placed over the layup and then a breather layer is placed over that. Often times I use waxed Mylar against the layup and then felt over the Mylar. This allows air to be removed evenly around the object that you are bagging ensuring good even vacuum across the entire surface. With no breather it's easy to suck the bag against what ever you are bagging and leave small pockets of air that don't receive any pressure at all.

Your idea for using PVC for bag clamps is a sound one. Several people have made the same thing and you can actually purchase a commercially produced version if you don't feel like ripping PVC pipe to make your own.

If you are looking for bagging supplies this is a great web site: http://www.fiberglasssupply.com There is a ton more than what you will ever need for bagging leather but it's also a good source of information. If you really want a good cheap easy to use bag though, I've used the heaviest clear painters drop cloth that I can find at Menards. Plumbers mastic run around the edges then smashed between the layers acts as the seal. Quick, easy, cheap.

Almost every vacuum system either homemade or professional uses a schrader valve like you described with standard air hose. Well done.

That's probably way more info than anyone wanted about vacuum bagging and really isn't much more than a dirty over view. You can get as complex or as simple as you like. My vacuum system can produce near laboratory grade vacuum and has a 30 gallon vacuum reserve so that I don't have to worry about ever loosing vacuum if I accidentally puncture a bag, I can get it sealed before too much air invades the system.

On a side note, I have been wondering lately now to include carbon fiber into a holster. This gives me an idea...

[Retired LE]

Thanks for taking the time to post a detailed reply.

Your comment about a vaccum reserve brings up another question. I assume the reserve acts as sort of a reverse accumulator which are common in pressurized systems. I did a search on homemade vacuum systems and most of them had some sort of canister made out of pvc pipe, old air tanks and even some used fire extinguisher tanks. You mentioned that it helps in the event of a leak. Doesn't it also significantly extend the time for a full vacuum to be reached?

[Denster]

Ok thanks. I didn't realize there might be a break in period for this pump. The instructions were rather sketchy.

I lieu of a vinyl or poly bag, I am going to experiment with a used inner tube that I picked up for free from the local tire store.

I am working on an idea using pvc tubing to use as clamps/sealers on the cut ends. I also made up a vacuum hose using quick disconnect air fittings and a schrader valve fitting.

Only problem I can see initially is that I won't be able to see through my homemade bag to see what needs to be molded - but I think the outline should be distinct enough.

Will see how that works out.

PS: Where did you get your bag and how much was it?

I got it from veneer woodcrafters. It is 2'X4' which is actually enough for two bags if the first section I am using ever wears out. 2500+ holsters and still going strong. Cost was right at $100 after shipping.

[Retired LE]

I got it from veneer woodcrafters. It is 2'X4' which is actually enough for two bags if the first section I am using ever wears out. 2500+ holsters and still going strong. Cost was right at $100 after shipping.

Ok thanks. I will check out the site.

Mike

[Dwight]

I bought a piece of vinyl at JoAnn fabrics, . . . folded it over, . . . contact cemented the edges, . . . I roll the end & put it into a piece of 3/4" pvc that has a slot for it, . . . thread a 1/2 in rod in to hold the vacuum, . . . turn on the pump, . . . watch the vac work, . . .

Bag cost: about $15.

May God bless,

Dwight

[Retired LE]

I bought a piece of vinyl at JoAnn fabrics, . . . folded it over, . . . contact cemented the edges, . . . I roll the end & put it into a piece of 3/4" pvc that has a slot for it, . . . thread a 1/2 in rod in to hold the vacuum, . . . turn on the pump, . . . watch the vac work, . . .

Bag cost: about $15.

May God bless,

Dwight

How did you attach the vacuum hose to the finished bag? Did you make your own fitting or use an existing item?

[Dwight]

How did you attach the vacuum hose to the finished bag? Did you make your own fitting or use an existing item?

Retired LE, . . . I looked back at my paypal list, but could not find the supplier.

I found them on Google, like I do most every thing else I need. They were a small company, . . . associated with vinyl veneer bags used in the wood veneering business, . . . and if I remember correctly, they also offered bags for sale.

I only bought the bag fitting, . . . price was in the $15 to $20 dollar range, . . .

Ordered it, . . . punched hole in the bag, . . . screwed it all together, . . . VOILA, . . . it worked.

The bag itself is .015 thick.

Hope this helps.

May God bless,

Dwight

[Dwight]

Retired LE, . . . here's another view of the fitting.

May God bless,

Dwight

[Retired LE]

I found them on Google, like I do most every thing else I need. They were a small company, . . . associated with vinyl veneer bags used in the wood veneering business, . . . and if I remember correctly, they also offered bags for sale.

I only bought the bag fitting, . . . price was in the $15 to $20 dollar range, . . .

May God bless,

Dwight

Ok thanks Dwight. My apologies to the OP (original poster) for hijacking this thread....