Slowing Down My Singer 111W155

[Iron Pounder]

I thought I would start a new topic about working with the clutch motor. I think I may forget all about the servo motors and go with some stuff I can set up myself. Here is where I am so far... I now have a pulley that has an inside diameter of 1.175", which has made a big big difference in not only less top speed but I also gained alot of torque even though the stock motor didn't seem to need a boost. After the drive pulley change I moved the linkage over to the left side of my foot control and lengthened the lever on the motor to match with some aluminum angle I had. The linkage was a mess that came with the same so I made new linkage out of some 1/4" 1018 steel I had.

Lengthening the arm helped less than the pulley but it did increase the input I have to give the pedal to make a speed change so it just helps control, although a person could easily put a stop on the linkage or pedal to limit the travel. Having linkage that is nice and straight is helping as well. It seemed to have a catch to it which made me just slightly harder to overcome then it would free up and then my foot would be giving the machine too much pedal input. I thought about making a roller bearing set up but trying to keep it simple and really what I made was free and works fine.

So far I have made a big improvment overall and not had to go buy a thing as I had a complete clutch motor with that small pulley already on it. I really need to get a new belt but didn't want to until I decided on keeping the machine pulley or not. I'm wondering how much more it will slow by adding a bigger pulley on top. Some simple math will tell me the reduction at full speed I guess but this is more about the feel of the machine and useable speed for me not just reducing top speed.

Any and all thoughts, ideas or otherwise are welcome.

[wind power]

I thought I would start a new topic about working with the clutch motor. I think I may forget all about the servo motors and go with some stuff I can set up myself. Here is where I am so far... I now have a pulley that has an inside diameter of 1.175", which has made a big big difference in not only less top speed but I also gained alot of torque even though the stock motor didn't seem to need a boost. After the drive pulley change I moved the linkage over to the left side of my foot control and lengthened the lever on the motor to match with some aluminum angle I had. The linkage was a mess that came with the same so I made new linkage out of some 1/4" 1018 steel I had.

Lengthening the arm helped less than the pulley but it did increase the input I have to give the pedal to make a speed change so it just helps control, although a person could easily put a stop on the linkage or pedal to limit the travel. Having linkage that is nice and straight is helping as well. It seemed to have a catch to it which made me just slightly harder to overcome then it would free up and then my foot would be giving the machine too much pedal input. I thought about making a roller bearing set up but trying to keep it simple and really what I made was free and works fine.

So far I have made a big improvment overall and not had to go buy a thing as I had a complete clutch motor with that small pulley already on it. I really need to get a new belt but didn't want to until I decided on keeping the machine pulley or not. I'm wondering how much more it will slow by adding a bigger pulley on top. Some simple math will tell me the reduction at full speed I guess but this is more about the feel of the machine and useable speed for me not just reducing top speed.

Any and all thoughts, ideas or otherwise are welcome.

Hi Iron,

I dont know what thickness of leather you plan on sewing but here is my thoughts,processes and learning curves on a singer 111w155:

I went through the same process with a singer clutch motor recently on my 111w155, and machined out a small pulley of about the same diameter on the motor ( driven) side but still felt the clutch motor was a bit fast for me.....you see I lacked the experince and thought "Hey this sewing stuff doesnt require a bit of skill"...but boy oh boy was I wrong....I simply could not control that clutch motor at the much slower pace it was running at...so I opted for a cheapo servo motor from ebay and essentiually got ripped off by the clown who sold me a 550 watt motor and when it arrived was a 400 watt motor!

Anyway instead of trying to return things and fighting the shipping price war I settled into trying to make things work....so I grabbed a 12 inch pulley and machine another 2 inch pulley for more reduction and mouting them on a shaft with some cheapo pillow blocks....well to make a long story short I put a digital tachometer on it to measure the rpms and I had some success, I can go as slow as 8 rpms to about 600 rpms will a full and gradual range of motion to the foot pedal...

As a side note, what did I learn from the experience?:

First I got hosed for a crappy dude in LA on the servo motor combined with ebay antics...so it was a losing battle to even fight returning the SH*!. Second there are people here who can really help you for a few pennies more....Yes I wished I had bought one of Toledo Bob's gear reduction motors and could have forgone all of the things I had done with down time, modifications, pullies etc..

But lastly,I discovered people are actually right on this forum about a singer 111w155 being is good for about 3/8 of leather and about 138 thread without undue hardship on the machine....sure I was able to sew with 277 thread and more consistently with 207 thread but it was putting undue hardship on a machine and bobbin case.

So now Im back to reality.... I will keep my 111w155 at 138 thread with maybe the max of 207 for short runs and save my pennies for a real leather sewing machine from Toledo bob....I have never spoken to the guy but quite frankly he has done the most to help me out ( and among a few other folks here) and personally I've got to respect a guy like that who goes out of his way to help newbies like myself.

Yes my next machine will be one of his Cowboys!

All the best,

Gavin

[busted]

Guessing that motor you have is 1750 rpm. My motor is this speed. I changed the smaller pulley on the motor for a 3" pulley. I then took a 2" and an 8" cast iron

pulley and drilled 3 1/8th inch holes through the face of these two pulleys. Put these two pulleys together with roll pins. Both pulleys have a 3/4" bore. Next is the mounting bracket. I used a piece of 3/8th's plate 2 1/2" wide 9 inches long with a 3/4" hole one inch from the bottom of one of the ends of the plate it makes no difference which end and bend the other end 2 1/2" from the end of the plate to a right angle. Have someone/you weld a 4"x3/4" bolt in the hole you just made in the plate; weld the head of the bolt. It goes the opposite direction of the bent side. Either after or before you bend the plate drill 2 3/8th or 5/16th holes in the top of your table and match the holes in the plate to the table holes. Align the pulley before you drill the holes. The head of the bolt will be directly below the bend. Drill a hole in your new speed reducer to fit a grease zerk for lubrication of the 3/4" bolt and pulley. This will produce 800 stitches per minute It will not reduce the torque of the motor start up. It doesn't cost very much to do this. Good luck.

I thought I would start a new topic about working with the clutch motor. I think I may forget all about the servo motors and go with some stuff I can set up myself. Here is where I am so far... I now have a pulley that has an inside diameter of 1.175", which has made a big big difference in not only less top speed but I also gained alot of torque even though the stock motor didn't seem to need a boost. After the drive pulley change I moved the linkage over to the left side of my foot control and lengthened the lever on the motor to match with some aluminum angle I had. The linkage was a mess that came with the same so I made new linkage out of some 1/4" 1018 steel I had.

Lengthening the arm helped less than the pulley but it did increase the input I have to give the pedal to make a speed change so it just helps control, although a person could easily put a stop on the linkage or pedal to limit the travel. Having linkage that is nice and straight is helping as well. It seemed to have a catch to it which made me just slightly harder to overcome then it would free up and then my foot would be giving the machine too much pedal input. I thought about making a roller bearing set up but trying to keep it simple and really what I made was free and works fine.

So far I have made a big improvment overall and not had to go buy a thing as I had a complete clutch motor with that small pulley already on it. I really need to get a new belt but didn't want to until I decided on keeping the machine pulley or not. I'm wondering how much more it will slow by adding a bigger pulley on top. Some simple math will tell me the reduction at full speed I guess but this is more about the feel of the machine and useable speed for me not just reducing top speed.

Any and all thoughts, ideas or otherwise are welcome.

[CustomDoug]

Busted - you couldn't post a picture of that set up, could you?

[busted]

OK here ya' go. You might need to make the 3/8ths inch plate 1 1/2 inches longer I had to install a 3/4" spacer on the table in order to have clearance for the belt to fit around the 8" pulley. I milled the face of the smaller pulley to bring the vertical centers of the two pulleys closer. It ended up 1/16inch clearance for the machine belt to the side of the 8" pulley and I drilled the nut and bolt and put a cotter pin through it to hold everything in place.The new belts were the most expensive part of the project. Hope this helps.

Busted - you couldn't post a picture of that set up, could you?

[CustomDoug]

ahh, I see now. Thanks for the pics, that is helpful indeed. 800 stitches per minute is around 13 per second so to some that would still be considered fast (me ). That's not getting it down to a crawl but I imagine it's just taking the really aggressive speed out of the clutch motor. Or am I off on my understanding of stitch speed?

[busted]

From 3500spm to 800spm is slow. If you are afraid of the machine then I would not buy one. If you want to sew that slow why bother buying a sewing machine just hand stitch every thing. You might try swapping out my 3 inch pulleys for a couple of 1 3/4" pulleys that should get the speed down to 350 or 400spm or get one of the post and awl machines that will run 300spm.

ahh, I see now. Thanks for the pics, that is helpful indeed. 800 stitches per minute is around 13 per second so to some that would still be considered fast (me ). That's not getting it down to a crawl but I imagine it's just taking the really aggressive speed out of the clutch motor. Or am I off on my understanding of stitch speed?

[CustomDoug]

From 3500spm to 800spm is slow.

ok, that put it in perspective for me.

[Jimbob]

I thought I would start a new topic about working with the clutch motor. I think I may forget all about the servo motors and go with some stuff I can set up myself. Here is where I am so far... I now have a pulley that has an inside diameter of 1.175", which has made a big big difference in not only less top speed but I also gained alot of torque even though the stock motor didn't seem to need a boost. After the drive pulley change I moved the linkage over to the left side of my foot control and lengthened the lever on the motor to match with some aluminum angle I had. The linkage was a mess that came with the same so I made new linkage out of some 1/4" 1018 steel I had.

Lengthening the arm helped less than the pulley but it did increase the input I have to give the pedal to make a speed change so it just helps control, although a person could easily put a stop on the linkage or pedal to limit the travel. Having linkage that is nice and straight is helping as well. It seemed to have a catch to it which made me just slightly harder to overcome then it would free up and then my foot would be giving the machine too much pedal input. I thought about making a roller bearing set up but trying to keep it simple and really what I made was free and works fine.

So far I have made a big improvment overall and not had to go buy a thing as I had a complete clutch motor with that small pulley already on it. I really need to get a new belt but didn't want to until I decided on keeping the machine pulley or not. I'm wondering how much more it will slow by adding a bigger pulley on top. Some simple math will tell me the reduction at full speed I guess but this is more about the feel of the machine and useable speed for me not just reducing top speed.

Any and all thoughts, ideas or otherwise are welcome.

I have a huge aftermarket ( I mean huge!!) handwheel on my Adler 105-64 and it does very much help to slow down, but mostly it gives more punching power (touque) and that in combination with

your smaller motor pulley is a great gain!

As described in one of the post's, a mechanism like a speed reducer with an array of pulleys will help even more....and of courese if you have a DC servo with gear reduction, like Bob Kovar sells you are all set... ( I have 2 of them and love 'em!!)

What ever works, what ever you can afford and what ever you acctually need is a go....keep us posted!

James

[Iron Pounder]

Gavin, I'm using the machine for 7 oz total max with 138 thread max so it should live a long time based on what others have been able to get away with on it. Gald you got your machine lined out to a speed to work for you. I as well tried to purchase a servo motor to save the time but ended up having nothing but grief, and I bought a popular model discussed here on the forum. It has forced me to come up with something better anyway so I guess other than getting behind and time lost it will have an end result of a better operating machine overall.

Busted, Yes my motor is 1750 RPM. Do have some kind of bushings or bearings that the pulley assembly you made rides on the bolt with or just spins on the cast hub they came with? Why did you go back to the bigger pulley on the motor first? Trying to see how that would have helped. Maybe you just tried to hit a desired stitch speed you wanted? From everything I have found our machines did stitch 3500 per min which is roughly 58 per second . If you have it at 800 per min now that is roughly 75% reduction in speed .

James, I like the idea of a bolt on wheel for the machine. I'm tryint to decide if I want to modify the machine side of things or just put a speed reducer on and leave the machine as is. I wonder if my machine has an aftermarket handle I can purchase?

I think all this information is great guys and will help others slow machines they have/buy down the road.

[busted]

I took the original pulley off because it did not work out to the speed I wanted. The 1 3/4" pulley will produce around 300 to 350 spm if you use bot of these on the large pulley and the motor.

There are no bushings or anything the pulley bore is 3/4" the same as the bolt OD. You don't have to modify the machine to install this speed reducer. Just install the speed reducer and change the belts. The motor belt goes to the large pulley the small pulley goes to the machine hand pulley.

Gavin, I'm using the machine for 7 oz total max with 138 thread max so it should live a long time based on what others have been able to get away with on it. Gald you got your machine lined out to a speed to work for you. I as well tried to purchase a servo motor to save the time but ended up having nothing but grief, and I bought a popular model discussed here on the forum. It has forced me to come up with something better anyway so I guess other than getting behind and time lost it will have an end result of a better operating machine overall.

Busted, Yes my motor is 1750 RPM. Do have some kind of bushings or bearings that the pulley assembly you made rides on the bolt with or just spins on the cast hub they came with? Why did you go back to the bigger pulley on the motor first? Trying to see how that would have helped. Maybe you just tried to hit a desired stitch speed you wanted? From everything I have found our machines did stitch 3500 per min which is roughly 58 per second . If you have it at 800 per min now that is roughly 75% reduction in speed .

James, I like the idea of a bolt on wheel for the machine. I'm tryint to decide if I want to modify the machine side of things or just put a speed reducer on and leave the machine as is. I wonder if my machine has an aftermarket handle I can purchase?

I think all this information is great guys and will help others slow machines they have/buy down the road.

[Ferg]

I modify most pieces of machinery I own, that is many. BUT, there are times when modification can turn into a nightmare, why don't you just bite the bullet, call Bob, get real reduction with no loss of torque with one of his servo motors?

I forgot to mention, I like to sew slow on some things, very slow. Does that equal sewing by hand? Definitely not. Also like to speed it up,SERVO,

ferg

1343066261[/url]' post='257530']

I took the original pulley off because it did not work out to the speed I wanted. The 1 3/4" pulley will produce around 300 to 350 spm if you use bot of these on the large pulley and the motor.

There are no bushings or anything the pulley bore is 3/4" the same as the bolt OD. You don't have to modify the machine to install this speed reducer. Just install the speed reducer and change the belts. The motor belt goes to the large pulley the small pulley goes to the machine hand pulley.

Edited July 23, 2012 by 50 years leather

[Iron Pounder]

Busted, When I talked about a possible mod to the machine I was meaning putting a bigger pulley on the machine itself as some others have done here in the forum and not done the 2 pulley set up at all. Some have just put a 10-12" pulley on the machine and a 2" or less on the motor to do the same thing. It looks like I would have to put a very small idler pulley on the bobbin wind set up to keep it with a large pulley on the machine as the stock one wouldn't fit, at least not in the stock location.

Ferg, If you read my other post about finding a good servo motor, and I think I mention it here on this post you will find I did try to go the servo motor route at first and that was a complete waste of time and money. I haven't said where I got this servo motor that came broke in three places right out of the box, that was in perfect condition as I see no good will come from it. I will just say this the money it cost means nothing. It was the time wasted and the very rude customer service that forced going down this road. It sounds like I just had bad luck but the turn off was how things got handled from there. Just glad it was a few bucks and not a machine purchase.

[Iron Pounder]

Jimbob Do they make an aftermarket wheel for this machine. does it have a larger pulley on it or just a bigger hand wheel? I can see where that would help operate by hand but wouldn't procide any advantage under power. Where would I look for one to fit mine?

[Ferg]

I am sorry you had a bad experience with the servo. I have a Consew rb5 and a Seiko cylinder arm, both have servo motors, one from Bob one from Consew. They both work perfectly. I have plenty of torque at every speed in almost everything I have tried to sew. That is why I suggested the servo. If you bought the servo from any of the dealers that frequent this forum I am sure they will almost stand on their heads to get you going correctly. If you bought the servo off e-bay, what can I say?

ferg

1343071226[/url]' post='257538']

Busted, When I talked about a possible mod to the machine I was meaning putting a bigger pulley on the machine itself as some others have done here in the forum and not done the 2 pulley set up at all. Some have just put a 10-12" pulley on the machine and a 2" or less on the motor to do the same thing. It looks like I would have to put a very small idler pulley on the bobbin wind set up to keep it with a large pulley on the machine as the stock one wouldn't fit, at least not in the stock location.

Ferg, If you read my other post about finding a good servo motor, and I think I mention it here on this post you will find I did try to go the servo motor route at first and that was a complete waste of time and money. I haven't said where I got this servo motor that came broke in three places right out of the box, that was in perfect condition as I see no good will come from it. I will just say this the money it cost means nothing. It was the time wasted and the very rude customer service that forced going down this road. It sounds like I just had bad luck but the turn off was how things got handled from there. Just glad it was a few bucks and not a machine purchase.

[Iron Pounder]

I bought it from a man that runs ads here all the time. I haven't mentioned his name as he did refund my money but he wasn't interested in fixing the one he sent me. I don't want this to be about him or the servo, that is over. My hope is the info here can help others.

[QDaddy]

I bought one from Bob Kovar and couldn't be happier. Sorry you got hosed, but this is the best advice I can give to anyone wanting to tame a machine.

Q