Burnish Marks From Wet Molding

[SooperJake]

Okay, I'm happy with placing the stitch line, and my hand sewing is progressing nicely. What baffles me now is wet molding. Specifically burnish marks.

I get great retention, the gun is well centered, and so on.

But, one swipe with a boning tool or highly polished antler tine and my leather darkens and shines like polish.

I figure it is a casing issue? Quality of the leather?

This is raw leather with no dye.

Too wet, too dry, didn't wait long enough after wetting, waited too long, not enough soap in the water, didn't hold my tongue right, did it on a Sunday instead of a Thursday?

What the hell is the trick? I've watched Eric's video half a dozen times. I watched Bianchi's a couple times. Read and reread about casing.

HELP!

Jake

[SooperJake]

watched again...I definitely have been dragging the tools more than Eric does in his video. Maybe that's it. Press more drag less. Leather still has to be part of the problem.

[benlilly1]

My guess is push it into shape like a vacuum press rather than using a rubbing action like you're giving it a massage. My thought is it's friction. I've had that problem too and when I don't force it the leather comes out better.

[Sylvia]

Benilly... I have one of those 'food saver" machines... I wonder if you could vacuum form using that?

To the Original Poster... yep rubbing too much. Try using your fingers to form rather than a tool. (Make sure your nails are well clipped.)

[TwinOaks]

Correct on the cause...friction.

There's a couple of solutions, one of which is to press with the molding tool, but don't rub (or slide). I like my way, which is faster, and has almost zero unwanted burnishing. First, do the secret chant five times, then hop on the left foot while turning in a circle.........

Yes, you can use a home vacuum sealer to pull the leather down to shape. However, some caution must be used because on the inside of the bag (on at least one side) are small grooves in the plastic which act as air channels. They will most certainly leave marks in the leather. You have to block them from the leather somehow....I use a sheet of paper.

Cut the bag well over sized so you can re-use it multiple times. You're going for compression, not long term storage, so as long as the bag will take a vacuum you can use it.

Now, once you've pulled the vacuum, you'll have the shape of the item you're trying to mold to. You will NOT have the detail boning lines you're after. To get those, get out the antler or what ever you want to use, and chase the lines through the plastic. The plastic (being sucked down in the shape of your object) will provide a smooth surface for you to rub on without imparting any friction to the leather. Chase everything you want, but DO NOT over mold the item. You don't need every little detail to be seen, and trying to do so may make the holster so tight that you can't remove it. Mlapaglia (member) did that on an accessory rail and it acted like zipper teeth - very difficult to remove the gun from the holster. If you mold too deeply in the trigger guard, you could even set yourself up for a ND (depending on make, of course). Open the bag and remove the holster and carefully remove the gun, taking care not to flex the leather too much.

Alright, you've got your molding done....but you're not finished yet. You need to set the leather in its current shape/molding, and address another minor issue. Leather has a tendency to shrink just a bit as it dries, so if you've molded exactly to a shape, you'll end up just a tiny bit too tight when it's dry. If you're air drying, you can skip this first step. Set the oven to 125 (or as low as you can) and place the cased holster in it. You're looking to get the leather up to the 125-135 F range. My oven takes about 20 minutes from a cold start. No, you can not use the microwave. Once the leather hits that range, the collagen in the leather has been 'activated'. Now, you've got to work quickly. Place the gun in a ziploc (type) bag of appropriate size and pull it as tight around the gun as you can. Now, reholster and let the whole thing cool down to room temperature. When you remove the bagged gun, you'll find that there is a few thousandths of an inch extra room which allows for a reasonably fast presentation, yet holds securely and doesn't hang up on the draw. If you're going to add anything that requires lots of rubbing (wax based) or heat, wait until the item is dry* then reheat it just enough to aid the leather in absorption of the finish.

* If I'm using vinegaroon, I apply my conditioner as soon as I'm able to handle the leather. The vinegaroon process tends to push waxes in the leather to the surface and may be difficult to get conditioners back INTO the leather once it's dry.

That should get you headed in the right direction, but remember to experiment on some scrap to get your oven temp/time right.

ETA : If you're not using a vacuum sealer, you can do the whole boning bit inside of a regular (ziploc) bag....just be sure you properly case the leather.

Mike

[SooperJake]

Share a little about your casing procedure if you would... and thanks!

Jake

That should get you headed in the right direction, but remember to experiment on some scrap to get your oven temp/time right.

ETA : If you're not using a vacuum sealer, you can do the whole boning bit inside of a regular (ziploc) bag....just be sure you properly case the leather.

Mike

[TwinOaks]

http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=19121

If you haven't done it yet, spend some time reading Bob's posts. He's one of the true masters of this craft, and he's graciously shared a LOT of information with us.

[SooperJake]

No pun intended but I go the impression that casing for wet molding a holster was much less wet than for tooling. Perhaps I haven't waited long enough after wetting after all, or not enough moisture. I typically dunked it in lightly soaped water for 5 to 10 seconds then let the leather return to a natural color. I will re-read Bob's artickle too.

Time to experiment....hop hop hop...

Thanks

Jake

Edited July 24, 2012 by SooperJake

[TwinOaks]

Well, we're talking about two different things- So in fairness, molding is done 'wetter' than tooling....because you want to be able to move the leather around. Tooling is done 'cased' so that you get the burnishing effect in the tool impressions. The detail lines (boning) on ANY type of wet molding is actually done after the molding is complete...which means the moisture has had a little time to evenly distribute through the leather...resulting in slightly damper than 'cased' leather. By the time you get the lines boned in, you are effectively working with cased leather.

In simpler terms, if the leather is taking and holding the impressions/lines, then you're doing fine. If it squishes around a bit, (lines are not distinct) it's too wet. If you need a lot of force to get clean lines, it's too dry.

[SooperJake]

Would it also be true,then, that casing for tooling is done only from the grain side, because you want to glue the leather down to cardboard to keep it from stretching? These damn books need to be rewritten. On one page they say to wet the leather from both sides, and two pages later they tell you to glue the leather down and wet from the grain side, which I have to assume can make the cardboard soggy?

Has anyone tried tooling on a rubberized surface vs. glueing the leather down? Something like drawer lining or rubberized router mat material comes to mind.

Not the original threads purpose, I know, but it is all about casing and my confusion.

Jake

Edited July 25, 2012 by SooperJake

[TwinOaks]

Proper casing for tooling should include wetting the leather, then letting it set for a long while for the moisture content to equalize throughout the fibers in the entire piece. Many people bag the item and place it in the fridge overnight. Then, the leather is removed and allowed to dry until it looks dry i.e. it's returned to it's original color, but is still cool to the touch. That is when the leather is cased.

As to securing it to a board for tooling....you don't have to use cardboard. If I have a lot of tooling to do.....once it's cased....I stick it to my granite block. Or the next time you get down to Lowe's/Home Depot, get a piece of plexi-glass. It's just a firm surface to which to attach the leather. The reason for this is that tooling distorts the leather....kind of like rolling out dough. If you press one part of it thin, it tends to spread out. What you're trying to prevent is getting the whole piece out of shape/distorted. If it looks to be drying out too quickly, you can place something over the leather (Saran wrap) to delay the drying, and can even give it a light spraying with water ($1 'utility' spray bottle) to keep it moist.

DO NOT TOOL ON A RUBBERIZED SURFACE. Your tooling surface needs to absorb the impact of the tool without moving - hence the common practice of using a large piece of granite or marble. It has enough mass to absorb the energy of the tooling without shifting or rebounding. If you tool on a rubberized surface, you'll probably get double strikes from where the tooling surface has 'bounced' the leather back into the tool.

You can put a rubber pad under the tooling block, but that's just to help absorb sound transmission from the block to the the table.

[SooperJake]

The rubber surface I meant is a very thin material that would substitute for rubber cement.

So, you are saying you use rubber cement and bond the leather directly to the granite, after it has been properly cased. TO?

I really appreciate your indepth answers, and everyone's answers here. Experience beats the stuffing out of any book!

Jake

[particle]

Personally, when I tool my small leather pieces for holsters, I put a few pieces of double-sided tape on the grain side, then stick it to a piece of 12" x 12" x 1/4" hardboard that came in an old Tandy beginner's kit. I'll wet my leather from the grain side, then turn it over and let it rest face-down against my granite slab to give the water a little more time to absorb into the leather. The benefit to the double-sided tape is it can be removed and usually the sticky residue rubs right off if you rub it firmly with your fingers. So, for example, if you're tooling a journal cover, you can still have exposed flesh side if you prefer. This won't necessarily help with or prevent stretching, but I'm mostly just concerned with keeping my leather from sliding all over the place while I try to tool it.

[TwinOaks]

I'll have to admit that more than once I've tooled everything I needed, THEN cut the piece out of larger piece of leather.....stretchus non-existus.

[SooperJake]

Thanks all, for the ideas.

Jake