Cutting Patterns From Hermann Oak From Hell

[Denster]

I am a big fan of Hermann Oak leather for holsters and use it almost exclusively. Every once in awhile, say maybe one out of ten or twenty sides I get one that is just a bear to cut even if I case it. This is on the order of dulling all three of my round knives on a single pattern and having to strop them all before going to the next pattern. Before anyone suggests it I know how to sharpen and strop a round knife and have three top quality ones.

I guess I haven't been living right because on my last order I got a two sides, one 8/9 and one 6/7, of Hermann Oak from Hell and had to find a better way to do this. It really kills your bottom line when the time to cut out a pattern goes from 30 to 45 seconds to 8 to 10 minutes.

Particle had mentioned this situation with Hermann Oak and someone had mentioned using a hook blade on a utility knife. Generally I don't like using utility knives for cutting leather but in this case any port in a storm. Well I'll be damned it works and works well and only takes about a little over a minute to cut a pattern.

I thought this would be worthwhile to post, might be particularly helpful to new leather workers as it is a viable alternative to using a round knife in any leather. That said nothing beats a round knife for most work with most leather and is a skill that should be learned.

What I do is section the leather so I have two patterns on one piece. This gives you something to hang on to as you pull the utility knife. I cut an entrance slit on the bottom of the pattern along a flat line to insert the hook blade from the flesh side with the pattern drawn on the grain side and just pull it around the pattern. It is almost ridiculously easy to maintain 90deg when pulling the blade and going around even tight curves is easy.

One caveat. You do need to strop the blade before use and between patterns but this only takes a moment. My strop has a radius on one edge but you could easily make on with leather glued to a 5/8 dowel.

There is an upside to getting the Hermann Oak from Hell. While it also death on edgers it forms just as easily as Hermann Oak is known for and makes a really firm holster.

[Shooter McGavin]

I've had some HO like that as well. Not worth the hassle to me anymore so I stay exclusively with W&C Saddle Skirting.

Thanks for sharing about the hook knife though! Always nice to have options.

[IngleGunLeather]

yup, i got some of that. unfortunately for me, it was the first HO i ever ordered. after reading all of the postive recommendations on HO i was a little discouraged and dissapointed with it. nonetheless, i have a side of 6/7 sitting here waiting to go under the knife. i think i'll buy one of those tandy hook knives this weekend.

how did you work out the edging? are you casing before u edge?

Edited August 3, 2012 by CountryTrash

[Lobo]

Round knives have always scared the heck out of me, and I will readily admit that I have never learned to use one (properly or improperly). Utility knives (straight edge or hook blade) have proven to me that first aid supplies are an essential item to have in the shop at all times.

I have used heavy duty hand shears for many years and intend to continue doing so. Occasional adjustment of the attachment screw to maintain proper clearance, and occasional application of a diamond sharpening steel to the edges, and just about any pattern can be cut from just about any leather (OK, I have never tried anything over about 12 oz. weight).

Much of my rough-out cutting, and long straight cuts (starting belt straps on a diagonal from a new side of leather) can be done using an electric shear intended for automotive sheet metal work. Again, some small adjustments for blade clearance are necessary to assure a nice clean cut.

I have nothing but respect for those who continue with the traditional methods. But I have found that some things can be done differently with equally good results. My young shop assistant can cut a dozen holster patterns with hand shears in well under an hour without having to resort to the first aid kit, much less the stones and strops required to keep knives going from day to day. I can almost keep up with her production rate, despite being an old fart with osteoarthritis limiting my joints.

By the way, between the two of us we regularly turn out between 3 and 4 dozen pieces every week with plenty of time for leisurely lunches and happy hour activities.

Best regards.

[Denster]

yup, i got some of that. unfortunately for me, it was the first HO i ever ordered. after reading all of the postive recommendations on HO i was a little discouraged and dissapointed with it. nonetheless, i have a side of 6/7 sitting here waiting to go under the knife. i think i'll buy one of those tandy hook knives this weekend.

how did you work out the edging? are you casing before u edge?

Yes absolutely I always case before I edge. Goes into my work flow pretty good. I case the leather after stitching and tap the stitches then punch the belt slots then edge. The casing helps close up the stitches, prevents grain tear when I punch the slots and makes edging a lot easier.

[Denster]

Round knives have always scared the heck out of me, and I will readily admit that I have never learned to use one (properly or improperly). Utility knives (straight edge or hook blade) have proven to me that first aid supplies are an essential item to have in the shop at all times.

I have used heavy duty hand shears for many years and intend to continue doing so. Occasional adjustment of the attachment screw to maintain proper clearance, and occasional application of a diamond sharpening steel to the edges, and just about any pattern can be cut from just about any leather (OK, I have never tried anything over about 12 oz. weight).

Much of my rough-out cutting, and long straight cuts (starting belt straps on a diagonal from a new side of leather) can be done using an electric shear intended for automotive sheet metal work. Again, some small adjustments for blade clearance are necessary to assure a nice clean cut.

I have nothing but respect for those who continue with the traditional methods. But I have found that some things can be done differently with equally good results. My young shop assistant can cut a dozen holster patterns with hand shears in well under an hour without having to resort to the first aid kit, much less the stones and strops required to keep knives going from day to day. I can almost keep up with her production rate, despite being an old fart with osteoarthritis limiting my joints.

By the way, between the two of us we regularly turn out between 3 and 4 dozen pieces every week with plenty of time for leisurely lunches and happy hour activities.

Best regards.

We all use what we are comfortable with. I bought one of those heavy duty shears from Lowes after you wrote about them a couple of years ago. They will cut any leather including HO from hell up to 12OZ beyond that they've met their match. I used them for awhile until my doc prescribed meds that relieved the arthritis in my wrist and I could use a round knife again. They were materially slower, at least for me, and I couldn't get good inside curves and had to do some trimming but it kept me working. I still use them for cutting out butt cuffs and pocket quivers and mag pouches just not anything with inside curves.

You're right that a round knife can be scary you always have to practice safety first because if you loose your focus you can loose body parts real quick. The hook blade not so bad as your hands are always out of the direction of the cut.

Sounds like you're getting your assistant pretty well trained. Also glad to hear that business is still booming just never let it intrude on happy hour:)

[chiefjason]

My last section of HO had some really difficult areas to cut. Makes a really stiff holster though. But I have been using some of the craftsman leather and expected some oddities. And those of you using the utility knives might want to look into a fillet glove. I wear it on my off hand when I cut and when I edge. I managed to edge a big chunk out of my finger a couple weeks ago. Like these.

http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=rapala+fillet+glove&tag=googhydr-20&index=aps&hvadid=4627198047&hvpos=1t2&hvexid=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=19992928221749333636&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=b&ref=pd_sl_667kh5iuu_b

And glad to hear I'm not the only one stropping and re sharpening utility blades. I don't feel like a cheap skate now. lol

[Denster]

My last section of HO had some really difficult areas to cut. Makes a really stiff holster though. But I have been using some of the craftsman leather and expected some oddities. And those of you using the utility knives might want to look into a fillet glove. I wear it on my off hand when I cut and when I edge. I managed to edge a big chunk out of my finger a couple weeks ago. Like these.

http://www.amazon.co..._sl_667kh5iuu_b

And glad to hear I'm not the only one stropping and re sharpening utility blades. I don't feel like a cheap skate now. lol

Stropping utility blades is not really frugality but necessity. They are sharp from the package but not sharp enough and need stropped. Interesting on the frugality point though. I'm using the same blade and have cut through both sides of the HO from hell only a couple of sqft left as long as you strop between patterns they last a long time.

Thanks for the tip on the fillet gloves.

[Double U Leather]

Thought I'd throw my 2 cents in on this discussion. I use only HO leather for everything I do. I get it from Springfield Leather. Occasionally, I'll run into one that's incredibly tough to cut. Being sorta old school, I always would fight and struggle with a round knife. Finally, I broke down and used a utility knife on one. WOW!! Made a huge difference. Much more control and a whole lot less effort. Mind you, I use the round knife anytime I can, but if I run into a rank ol' steer hide, I whip out the utility knife and away I go. I still prefer the round knife, but sometimes ya just gotta do what ya gotta do.

[IngleGunLeather]

yup, i got some of that. unfortunately for me, it was the first HO i ever ordered. after reading all of the postive recommendations on HO i was a little discouraged and dissapointed with it. nonetheless, i have a side of 6/7 sitting here waiting to go under the knife. i think i'll buy one of those tandy hook knives this weekend.

how did you work out the edging? are you casing before u edge?

Whew! Luckily this side cuts like a hot knife through butter. I just cut out my western belt and liners. Picked up the curved trim knife too, it helped a great deal around bends. I shoulda worn a mask when sanding though.

Edited August 5, 2012 by CountryTrash

[MADMAX22]

Its not the knife that is the issue usually. I have had this happen with WC also. If I remember from posting this same issue a few years ago is that if the hide stays in the tanning solution a little too long or gets burned basically from it then you will end up with the core of the leather going on the verge of rawhide. It actually makes the core of this leather really tough and hence the cutting issue. Not so good for knife work but great for sheaths and such that require a stiff piece of leather.

As far as the cutting utinsel thing its always gonna be what you feel comfy with. I personally hate using shears except for the thin stuff, utility knives very very rarely because I personally cant control them except in straight lines and dont like changing blades. I love my round knives, have several of different shapes and sizes and I have very good control of them. Took a while but got there. Ofcourse thats what works for me and cant say it will work for anyone else.

[Eaglestroker]

I ran into this on W&C leather, I now make patterns out of 1/4" PDF, sandwiching the leather, and cut with a scroll saw.

Sure makes for less sore fingers.

Edited August 5, 2012 by Eaglestroker

[renegadelizard]

I used to use the hook blade, before i got a round knife...the hook blade always cut off camber for me...this bothered me because depending upon the direction of the cut, my patern could be off by quite a bit after trying to even up the edge...even with the really hard sides, which i actually prefer, i find the round knife to be much easier for me...for inside curves, especially tight ones, i have found that a good 1/2 hole punch works wonders...

[UberSquid]

I ran into this on W&C leather, I now make patterns out of 1/4" PDF, sandwiching the leather, and cut with a scroll saw.

Sure makes for less sore fingers.

I've used a fine blade in a scroll saw as well but for really fast accurate cutting nothing beats a router table with a bearing trim bit! It rips right through the leather up to the MDF pattern as fast as you can go and you can knock out a stack of pieces if you are trying to make several of the same pattern.