Beginner Having Problem With A Singer 45K25.

[Trox]

Hi Jim, although I think you meant to quote Edwin and not me. I agree with you Jim, this are all issues practice and more practice will solve.

Thanks

Trox

Easy answer! Practice, Practice, Practice. Then when you think you've practiced enough, do some more practice!!!

Several points I see. your thread should go around the second tension roller a second time to create even pull. you have to perfect your position on turning corners (the needle should have just picked up the thread before making a turn) Stop with the Thread take-up arm at its highest point so the is no slack to pick up. also hold the ends of your threads firmly when making the first few stitches to stop tails getting under the needle plate. Oil the machine regularly.

This looks like it is in very good order and should do the work you want to do easily. The old 45K25 is still one of the best Leather Machines that was ever produced. I still like them for decorative stitching on Patent Leather up to 3/8" thick. The Stand is a Gem, made the way they all should be made! 4 cord or #18 Linen thread is what they were made for so perservere and you will learn that you have a good one. Also please remember that the roller Foot is pressing on the one side so you have to counter by ever so slightly putting pressure on the other side as you feed it through. So go for it and practice, practice and practice, then when you are sure you have it right, have another practice.

Kindest Regards.

Jim Saddler.

[Iron Pounder]

Very nice machine!! I would love to have one.

[Trox]

Hi Edvin

Not two times, it has to go one and a half time around second tension disc. I have seen pictures off machines with wax apparatus, heated with gas to melt the wax. If you use waxed thread, your machines will be full of wax that hardens and jams up your machine. Then you have to warm it up with the gas heater every morning to get it to sew. I have no experience with use of waxed thread, and I would not use it in any of my machines. There are other kinds of machine they used wax in, I never seen it in a lockstitch machine. There are some pinned topics in this forum about thread and needle sizes, read them, they will answer your questions.

Here are some 45K machines

Trox

http://www.industrialsewmachine.com/webdoc1/used/used-singers/45k.htm

Hi guys!

I cannot thank you enough for all the pointers. It seems my thread is to small and my needle is to large so I will try and find some thicker thread and order some smaller needles on Ebay.

I would never in a million years figured the thread should be wound twice around the second roll. The owners manual was not very clear on the subject.

Am I right if I think I should use 20-thread with 160, 15 with 180 and 10 with 230? Should I get one thickness and stick with it?

Is pre waxed linen thread OK to use in the machine? It seems to me it would gunk up all the rollers?

Again, thank you so much. Now it's back to the workshop and trying again.

[CustomDoug]

I have seen pictures off machines with wax apparatus, heated with gas to melt the wax. If you use waxed thread, your machines will be full of wax that hardens and jams up your machine. Then you have to warm it up with the gas heater every morning to get it to sew. I have no experience with use of waxed thread, and I would not use it in any of my machines. There are other kinds of machine they used wax in, I never seen it in a lockstitch machine.

Trox

The 45K25 came from the factory with a wax pot or at least some did (mine has it's original still mounted as I mentioned earlier) and as Mr. Saddler said earlier, it was meant for 4 Cord Linen. So I think this is the ideal machine for what the original poster is trying to do. As for the wax "clogging up the machine"... well, I'd think you'd have to clean the tension disks, thread spring and thread retainer just above the needle on a regular basis - but the internals of the machine should not be effected in any way, assuming the bobbin thread is not waxed. Removing tension disks is not a big deal, but probably a bit of a hassle if done regularly. I still think it would be worth the effort. By the way Campbell-Bosworth sells the wax needled, it's called "Thread Lubricant" and is water soluble (can be remelted by adding hot water), they say it's good for edge burnishing too. Here's the Link: http://www.campbell-randall.com/shop/index.php?route=product/product&filter_name=lubricant&product_id=526

This will strengthen the seem a lot.... may even be necessary for the linen thread to run in this machine correctly (I don't know for sure). I've been planning to do the same and just haven't gotten around to it yet, though I already have the original wax pot. ...

4 cord or #18 Linen thread is what they were made for so perservere and you will learn that you have a good one. ...

Kindest Regards. Jim Saddler.

[Trox]

Hi,

Bees wax and thread lubricant has two different missions, I also have lube pots on my four heavy stitchers (Adler’s 5, 204, 105 and my TSC 441 machine)

The only one of my machine who really gets a smoking hot needle is my 441 clone, this machine needs to cool down the needle or else the thread melts. This is done by reducing the thread friction by oil or silicone thread lube.

Bees wax for hand sewing has an other mission, to help closing and protecting the stitches.

On early leather sewing machines, they had heated wax apparatus just for this purpose.

I have bought old sewing machines that do not turn because of old hardened grease, bees wax hardens fast. It will not only mess up your tension disc, it will mess up the shuttle and all related parts too. It has to be clean out after sewing, or warmed up by a flame to get liquid again.

Linen thread is a very good thread for sewing machines, very soft. However, with beeswax it will stick to your shuttle causing stitch errors. I would not try that with my machines, I use only white sewing machine oil in them.

Just my 2 cents

Trox

[CustomDoug]

Hi,Bees wax and thread lubricant has two different missions, I also have lube pots on my four heavy stitchers (Adler's 5, 204, 105 and my TSC 441 machine)

The only one of my machine who really gets a smoking hot needle is my 441 clone, this machine needs to cool down the needle or else the thread melts. This is done by reducing the thread friction by oil or silicone thread lube.

Bees wax for hand sewing has an other mission, to help closing and protecting the stitches.

On early leather sewing machines, they had heated wax apparatus just for this purpose.

I have bought old sewing machines that do not turn because of old hardened grease, bees wax hardens fast. It will not only mess up your tension disc, it will mess up the shuttle and all related parts too. It has to be clean out after sewing, or warmed up by a flame to get liquid again.

Linen thread is a very good thread for sewing machines, very soft. However, with beeswax it will stick to your shuttle causing stitch errors. I would not try that with my machines, I use only white sewing machine oil in them.

Just my 2 cents

Trox

Yea I wouldn't recommend using beeswax either but this other stuff is parafin wax. The official description of this product is "Water soluble Stitching Wax". I know it's not beeswax, I'd imagine this stuff would be gentler but who knows.. I'll post my results once I've tried it. BTW, I recently read a thread here called "Reasons for using Linen" or something like that, where someone had a lot of experience using liquid wax in an older machine with good results (besides the mess). To each his own.

Edited September 3, 2012 by CustomDoug

[Wizcrafts]

Yea I wouldn't recommend using beeswax either but this other stuff is parafin wax. The official description of this product is "Water soluble Stitching Wax". I know it's not beeswax, I'd imagine this stuff would be gentler but who knows.. I'll post my results once I've tried it. BTW, I recently read a thread here called "Reasons for using Linen" or something like that, where someone had a lot of experience using liquid wax in an older machine with good results (besides the mess). To each his own.

Are you referring to "Lax Wax?" This is made by Campbell-Bosworth, for use in their Union Lockstitch and Campbell-Randall needle and awl stitchers, or in shoe sole stitchers. I use it in my Union Lockstitch sometimes, when I use glazed linen thread. It hardens after sitting in the wax pot, so either use it regularly, or clean out the post before it congeals, when you are done using linen thread. Stick with Barbour's Irish Linen Thread, also sold by Campbell-Bosworth/Randall.

Ii you do run liquid wax in a closed eye machine, do a thorough cleaning between uses. This includes opening up the hook, bobbin case and shuttle race, as well as all guides and tensioners.

[CustomDoug]

Yep I believe the 'lax wax' is what it's called, though Campbell-Bosworth doesn't call it that on their site that I can see. It's just liquid paraffin wax that's water soluble, called Thread Lubricant. Spending some time cleaning will just have to be the trade off.

Edvin - be sure to let us know how things go with your 45K25 when you get a chance. If you decide to go the liquid wax route, you'll need to find an old machine being parted out to get the pot. If you find one let me know - I've been looking for an original bobbin winder.

[Trox]

Thank you Wiz,

this is about the same I was trying to tell them with some other words. Let’s use our time for something else please. Our Swedish friend Edvin here has purchased the old saddlers Iron horse, he is a very skilled hand stitcher. I guess he wants to speed things up a bit time is money.

However, the sewing machine cannot produce the same durable seam as two-thread hand sewing, sewn on leather. A tight correct laid lock stitch seam, closed with a hammer will do just fine.

I give the customer a choice of Hand sewn with waxed thread or machine sewn. I tell them the advantages and price differences; very few want to pay for the extra hours of hand sewing.

If they do, I do not mind doing some hands sewing, I find it relaxing.

Trox

Are you referring to "Lax Wax?" This is made by Campbell-Bosworth, for use in their Union Lockstitch and Campbell-Randall needle and awl stitchers, or in shoe sole stitchers. I use it in my Union Lockstitch sometimes, when I use glazed linen thread. It hardens after sitting in the wax pot, so either use it regularly, or clean out the post before it congeals, when you are done using linen thread. Stick with Barbour's Irish Linen Thread, also sold by Campbell-Bosworth/Randall.

Ii you do run liquid wax in a closed eye machine, do a thorough cleaning between uses. This includes opening up the hook, bobbin case and shuttle race, as well as all guides and tensioners.

[Edvin]

I just wanted to take time to thank you all properly for the fantastic help! I haven't had much time to play with Singer due to a hectic work schedule but I've ordered new needles and synthetic thread to practice with.

It is good to hear from the experts that the Singer 45K25 is a good, solid machine. I was afraid I paid to much.

Talked to the seller but he didn't have the lube pot. It seems the machine is clean on the inside, I'm a bit scared getting a lot of wax inside it.

As of now, it takes a lot more time sewing on the machine than for hand stitching but I guess that's just practice!

Once again, thank you all for your time. It was really helpful.