Problem With My Juki Pro 2000

[Trox]

Hi Trox!

Right now, I use #277 in my Cowboy CB4500, using either a #24/180 or 25/200 type 794 Schmetz needle. Sometimes I have to crank the pressure spring all the way down to sew hard leather 3/8 inch (10mm) or thicker.

When I need to sew really thick or tough material, with #346 or larger thread, I use my Union Lockstitch machine. The pressure spring on top of it resembles the old front fork spring used on Schwinn bicycles in the 1950s. I built a chopper out of a Triumph Terrier, using a Schwinn springer fork, when I was in my early teens. The spring on the ULS is very similar and can hold down the thickest leather and even plywood.

I have some #346 bonded polyester thread, I bought from Campbell-Bosworth. It has a softer hand than any bonded nylon in similar sizes. I don't know if it has less tensile strength also. I just sewed a double 14-15 ounce weight lifter's belt on the ULS, using this Campbell thread and had no problems whatsoever. I used a #3 needle and #3.5 awl (tight fit; no slack). The knots were easily pulled well up into the layers. I used black on top and natural on the bottom. There was no springiness in the black polyester thread. I am thinking about trying some black in size 277.

Hi Wiz,

You still have that monster ULS machine, I thought you had sold it. That is a beast of a machine; I have no doubt that can sew real heavy stuff. However, your 441 can do the job too. I took the speed reducer, clutch motor of my 441, and replaced them with an Efka 1550. A very good motor, I can go as thick as the machine allows. I use the same size Schmetz needle (200) with # 277 polyester. I can go down one size thread and needle, any further the needles get very thin and can easily make stitch errors. # 400 is the heaviest threads I have; I would like to try some # 500 I do not think that is any trouble. I have a Pfaff 345 cylinderbed I use for # 180 down to # 45. If you want to try good polyester, try coats Gral. It is lubricated polyester, very soft and more than strong enough for leather. German Amman Serafil I use much too, it is very similar to the Gral. Here is the data sheet

http://www.coatsindustrial.com/en/images/Gral%20Datasheet%202012-09_tcm35-17272.pdf .

[Wizcrafts]

Hi Wiz,

You still have that monster ULS machine, I thought you had sold it. That is a beast of a machine; I have no doubt that can sew real heavy stuff. However, your 441 can do the job too. I took the speed reducer, clutch motor of my 441, and replaced them with an Efka 1550. A very good motor, I can go as thick as the machine allows. I use the same size Schmetz needle (200) with # 277 polyester. I can go down one size thread and needle, any further the needles get very thin and can easily make stitch errors. # 400 is the heaviest threads I have; I would like to try some # 500 I do not think that is any trouble. I have a Pfaff 345 cylinderbed I use for # 180 down to # 45. If you want to try good polyester, try coats Gral. It is lubricated polyester, very soft and more than strong enough for leather. German Amman Serafil I use much too, it is very similar to the Gral. Here is the data sheet

http://www.coatsindustrial.com/en/images/Gral%20Datasheet%202012-09_tcm35-17272.pdf .

I prefer to sew with #277 and down on my Cowboy, and #277 and up on the Union Lockstitch. If I didn't have these two machines I would do it all on whichever machine I owned. The fact is that I had the Union Lockstitch first. It is my second ULS machine and I love them.

I used to sew fishtails onto gunbelts on the ULS, which requires spinning the flywheel by hand, one stitch at a time, feathering the clutch to get 355 degrees of rotation, then hand-wheeling over the the last 5 degree hump. Now, I slow down my servo motor to 600 and sew fishtails using the Cowboy, at about 1 stitch per second, with my foot down; pedal to the metal.

The Juki Pro 2000 is a jump-foot, needle feed machine, right? I like that feed system.

[Trox]

The Juki Pro 2000 is to my knowledge a Juki 441 wit a pat. lower needleguide|.

[Dogface]

Really? I had no idea. What is the needle guide that the 441 has? I figured that the 2000 was not made any more. Been trying to figger mine out and think I have running right.

[CowboyBob]

Ferdco took the standard Juki feed dog & needle plate off & put a slotted plate & the lower needle guide on these,the problem we found is the stitch length shortened in reverse w/o the feed dog being there.

[Dogface]

Bob,

Thanks for the explanation. I guess my Juki is rare then because it does have a feed dog. It was originally owned by a factory that makes leather tool belts. ...but it does say Ferdco on it. Do parts for the Cowboy fit my Juki ?

[Trox]

Hi Dogface, You can read about the lower needle guide in this topic http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=41581&hl=%2Bferdco+%2Blower+%2Bneedle . Your machine is a Juki TSC 441 pimped by Mr. Ferdinand Jean Blanc in his Ferdco company. They took a stock Juki TSC 441 and made it in to a leather stitcher. Later they made the head them self and modified it some more (higher lift like the Cowboy,from 20 mm to about 25 mm) like the latest Pro 200 Super Bull.

Sadly Ferdco is out of business; I belived they started the cloning of this fine leather stitcher ( starded the clone war). Who have become the industri standard in saddlery machines today. Correct me if I am wrong. Your machine is made in Japan and you best use original Juki parts for it. You can also use Chinese clone parts like Cowboy and Cobra. We use Juki part on our 441 clones too. Any Juki 441 or clone will have trouble in reverse with the slotrted needle or bag plate, because only the feed dog feeds in reverse.

Trox

[Dogface]

Hi Trox,

Thanks for all this...I really need to understand this machine better and that link helped a lot. I did talk to Cheryl some months ago..I think just a day or so after they closed as a matter of fact. She sent me an owners manual for the machine I have. Just so I know we're on the same page... the part I'm referring to as a 'feed dog' is (I think) a multi-notched part in the slot of the plate that moves the work piece forward or back to progress it as it sews. Mine has such a part. I dunno how else it would progress the workpiece w/o that part. I bought it years ago from a friend, now deceased, who used to service these. The guy who owns the plant that makes those leather tool belts had 9 Adlers and one Juki so he went with another Adler and traded in the Juki. I bought the whole set up complete for $2000. I would, however, like to replace the motor with a newer servo motor for better speed control even though mine does have a speed reducing wheel. Guess I could write to Bob and see if that's doable and affordable.

Oh, Cheryl now has a new web page... www.bwleather.com.

Edited November 1, 2012 by Dogface

[Anne Bonnys Locker]

I know that everybody appears to love bonded nylon but bonded polyester has much better lubrication properties. Would be interested to hear what comments you all have as I am about to order $US10k worth of bonded poly.

[Dogface]

You're gonna buy $10,000.00 worth of thread !

I've not used either but when I need to restock I will be choosing one or the other for sure