How To Dye Properly?

[jsb]

Hi everybody,

I'm relatively new to leatherwork and am really getting frustrated. I just can't manage to get an even coloring on my projects. I've tried antique paste and am now experimenting with some colors of which I think they are acrylic - got them from a Taiwanese lady. But whatever I do, the result is some blotched, stained, blurry (more frustration - I don't even know the correct word ) ugly surface. I guess I need some basic information on how to do the dyeing thing correctly. I must have missed out one or more steps ... So here are my basic questions:

- do I have to prepare the leather in any way and if, in which (applying anything before dyeing)?

- how do I apply the color properly? I have used wool dauber and piece of cloth and cotton wool, but none of it is really convincing.

- if using acrylic colors, do I need to mix them with anything? I remember the Taiwanese lady doing so, but I don't know what it was.

- how to avoid getting a darker spot/blotch when I first start to apply the color?

I probably forgot to post some questions that would have been necessary to ask, but I guess you got the idea - I just can't do it properly. So any tips, advice, tutorials, ... are really, really highly appreciated before frustration leads me to some silly actions

Thanks!

PS: I have attached a picture of the Taiwanese dye the lady gave me. Can anybody tell me what kind of dye it is? I can't read Taiwanese, but maybe someone here can tell by how it looks?

[Dwight]

jsb, . . . a few years back I got pretty good at daubers, sponges, etc, . . . but never really did get it as I wanted it. Especially repeatabilty, . . . used the same dye twice, but the items came out differently.

THEN,........... I started dip dyeing EVERYTHING. It has made all the difference in the world. Takes more dye, but is done in only a few seconds, . . . is uniform, . . . is repeatable, time and again, . . .

And, . . . my blood pressure stays down during and after the process

May God bless,

Dwight

[LNLeather]

Dwight Do you dilute the dye at all? So you can get the leather a lighter color

and then maybe dip again to get it darker?

What dye do you recommend? Thanks for your help

[jsb]

Dwight, thanks for your reply. Only I don't know what "dip dyeing" is (it sounds like you dip the leather into the dye? Sorry, I'm not a native speaker)... And should the leather be prepared in any way? Do the colors need dilluting? If so, with what? And if I DON'T want an even coat, but some shades? Still sooo many questions ...

[chadnorth]

I heard airbrushing the dye onto the leather will give you a uniform consistent spread. Of course you would need an airbrush, compressor for that to work. I have those since I used to airbrush back in the days. I think I just found an excuse to get back to airbrushing.... Hopefully someone here has used an airbrush and can pipe in if it works well with dyes.

[Alihs]

Yep, I concur, airbrushing works really well.

Been doing that for years now and works great.

Highly recommend it!

Kim

[jsb]

Thanks for the advice everyone! Only I don´t have airbrush equipment and to be honest, I´d rather learn how to do it the "traditional" way - but properly. Isn´t there one of the old hands that could tell me how to do it? Or does anybody know any video tutorial that can do the job?

Thanks again ...

[TwinOaks]

Dip dyeing is exactly what it sounds like. You dunk the piece of leather in a tub/bucket/tray of dye. You can also brush the dye onto the leather, or use daubers.

Take a look at Peter Main's website (search engine for it) and you can see what is possible.

However, the only way to get results like his requires a LOT of time. For lighter shades you can dilute the dye then slowly build the layers to get even transitions. I would like to offer the opinion, though, that the reason the 'traditional' methods were developed is because they didn't have access to the modern tools we have today. If you want to go with purely traditional methods...like the way it was originally done...you're stuck with oiled and sun tanned leather, some dyes made from bark and berries, and perhaps some made from animal by products. Just how far back do you want to go for "traditional"?

I've been using an airbrush for a couple of years now, and the results are well worth the initial expense (which is pretty small). You gain the ability to vary your shading from 'hint of color' to full saturation. You can mix your colors, fade from one to another like the 'sun burst' effect, pretty much whatever you want. You can also control it very well with a little practice, which results in a much more efficient use of the dyes. I also use my AB to apply finishes, which allows me to get a very even coat on everything, with no pooling or runs.

Lately there have been new products added to the list of available products for us. Just this week I stopped by a Tandy to take a look at the new "professional water stains". I'm using it on a project that I'm working on...now (happens to be in Black). My opinion of it? It's fantastic. It's certainly not a 'traditional' dye product, but it works better than the old standard 'USMC BLACK'. Within 20 minutes of applying it AND a sealer, I was assembling. No buffing, no touch ups, no rub off. I'm sold on it.

While the 'new' methods don't bend a knee to the 'traditional' methods, they work.

[Cyberthrasher]

I prefer to use an airbrush when possible, but I'm still not that good at doing detail work with it. So, I end up doing a lot of brush work as well. For me the key to using a brush is to follow Peter Main's tips on loading the brush. Dip it in your dilluted color and then wipe it off on a piece of paper to get the large quantities down. This will help to keep your application even. The same goes with the dauber. Just get the bulk of it off so it doesn't apply too much to the leather and then apply even and consistent pressure to the work. I also like to apply color to large areas by using a blue paper shop towel which gets an even coverage over a larger area. You can get a decent airbrush setup from harbor freight for under $100. They have small compressors that are frequently on sale and the Deluxe Airbrush is usually only about $30. You will need the hose too for $10 and some filters. I got all that and some quick disconnects for it for under $100.

[electrathon]

One more for dip dying. Fast, easy, consistant.

[Matt Alsaker]

I experienced many of the same frustrations you are when I was getting started. There are tons of threads on here, you'd have to use a variety of different key words to find them all. I've settled on Fiebing's Pro Oil Dyes, but might try Tandy Pro Water Stains down the road. I didn't like the water stains I initially tired from Tandy, but it wasn't the professional line. I started with a sponge, then daubers, and then a brush. I never got the finish I wanted. I now dip dye to get the base coat and then airbrush on any accents I want. If because of the color pattern I can't dip dye first, I just airbrush everything. The only thing I don't like about airbrushing is the thin coat of dye, meaning limited penetration into the leather.

[jsb]

Thanks again to everybody. TwinOaks, with "traditional" I was refering to every way of dyeing that doesn't use "modern" equipment like compressors . However, I guess you got me convinced that using airbrush is just another way of applying dye ... and probably one that is worth trying. So I have to learn even more - dyeing with brush, dauber, sheep skin, whatever ... AND airbrushing!

I read that the dye should be dilluted - using what and how much of it? I also still don't understand the differences when it comes to dyes. Acrylic, water stain, antique paste ... what is used for what? Or is it just a matter of personal preference?

Many, many thanks for all the tips and opinions and most of all for making me reconsider my attitudes and my way of thinking. I guess sometimes we (at least I) just tend to think too much "inside the box" ... thanks for giving me a push ;-)

[Dwight]

Just a couple of quick answers, . . . dip dyeing for me is very simple. I use two dyes (black and cowboy tan) at their 100% full strength. Another one I cut 50/50 with Feibings thinner, . . . because it produces a special color I like.

I use a 9 inch by 13 inch by 2 inch deep pan to dye in, . . . pouring in the dye, . . . the submerging the leather. I have two of them, . . . one for browns and one for black.

I use Feibings Oil Dye, . . . black and cowboy tan, . . . and another one that is a spirit dye.

I have tried air brushing, . . . have not become comfortable with it yet, . . . and really do not like the idea that they dye is only on the very upper layer of the product.

Anyway, . . . as electrathon said earlier, . . . it is quick, . . . uniform, . . . and predictably good.

May God bless,

Dwight

[Cyberthrasher]

  On 11/19/2012 at 1:54 PM, Dwight said:

I have tried air brushing, . . . have not become comfortable with it yet, . . . and really do not like the idea that they dye is only on the very upper layer of the product.

I was concerned with that as well, but found a post by Spinner at one point where he mentioned that he oils first and then applies a 50/50 mix of dye with the airbrush. The oil helps to pull the dye into the leather instead of leaving it on top. Doing that with a couple of coats, I've never had any issues.

For a thinner with the oil dyes (Fiebings Pro Oil) I use plain old Isopropyl alcohol with good results, but many people actually recommend using denatured alcohol since it's closer to the true base of the spirit dyes. I'm just cheap and I haven't had any issues with the Isopropyl at all.

As for the differences in the dyes (at least as far as my experience goes - I may be wrong on occasion):

Dye: Available in several different types - the most common being spirit dyes and water based. These dyes will actually penetrate the leather and color it, hence the previous discussion regarding the penetration of airbrushing dye. There are a few different types of spirit dyes, Feibings Pro Oil being my favorite.

Acrylic: These are more closely related to paint. The color doesn't really penetrate the leather and just sits on top of it, leaving it vulnerable to cracking and peeling. Some people have great success with them though. Personally, I'm afraid to use them for anything more than accents.

Antique: This is more like a shoe polish. It's meant to highlight the tooling and/or give an older appearance to the leather. It will color things, but I would think it would be hard to get an even uniform coverage. Usually you would use a clear finish over the entire piece and then apply antique so that it will settle into your tooling without coloring the rest of the leather. One more clear coat after that and you're good to go.

[LNLeather]

  On 11/19/2012 at 5:23 PM, Cyberthrasher said:

Antique: This is more like a shoe polish. It's meant to highlight the tooling and/or give an older appearance to the leather. It will color things, but I would think it would be hard to get an even uniform coverage. Usually you would use a clear finish over the entire piece and then apply antique so that it will settle into your tooling without coloring the rest of the leather. One more clear coat after that and you're good to go.

Cyberthrasher - You are right about using Antique, this is how most folks use it. How ever, like a lot of procedures and products there are other ways to use it.

jsb - Some of the things I make I only use Antique to color the leather (after a lite coat of Neatsfoot and time for that to dry some) and then when the Antique is dry I use it again to highlight the tooling.

My avatar is leather colored with Saddle tan Antique

and you might find this to be of some use...

Some Tips On How To Use Antique

Edited November 19, 2012 by LNLeather

[Cyberthrasher]

  On 11/19/2012 at 8:28 PM, LNLeather said:

How ever, like a lot of procedures and products there are other ways to use it.

Definitely agree. Since he seemed confused on what each item was normally used for, I limited the scope of my descriptions to that. I highly encourage experimentation in art and doing things outside the box. How else do we find new and interesting techniques

[aksprince]

I use a dry technique I learned while working at a Leather shop in California, back in the 70's.

Use a piece of old T shirt say 8 x 8 inches and fold several times. Using the center and avoiding seams and edges put the dye on the rag (I prefer either Feibings or Angeles professional oil dye.) Next wipe off some of the dye on a scrap of leather or even poster board. You have much better control of the color and dye if you do not apply wet. Rub it off good on the scrap and then apply to your project. Yes, this wastes dye, but you will have control and it will not be blotchy. I never dye with sponges and use daubers just on the edges. You will soon get use to putting just a little on the rag and how much to rub off and how much into your work. This way you can blend several colors, darken the edges if you choose, and add antique pastes to richen the colors, as well.

I worked 30 years to retire and be a starving artist again. I opened Black and Tan Leather Shop in Girdwood Alaska last July.

I hope this helps. I am new to Leatherwork.net

[electrathon]

  On 11/19/2012 at 10:25 PM, aksprince said:

I worked 30 years to retire and be a starving artist again. I opened Black and Tan Leather Shop in Girdwood Alaska last July.

Hmm, you sure picked a tough area. Summer tourists and winter skiers. Nice area though. I grew up in Anchorage.

Aaron

[jsb]

Many thanks to everybody for all the valuable tips and explanations. I think I understand the differences and the different ways of using dyes much better now. I have tried the dip dye method on a piece of scrap leather as well as the dry technique suggested by aksprince. Looks like both work well, at least much better than my attempts using a dauber ;-) I will keep practicing. I also got some alcohol to dillute the dye - I guess that´s how it´s supposed to be done?

One question that remains is: should I or do I have to "prepare" the leather in any way? Should a finish or anything alike be applied first and THEN the dye or antique or whatever? Or does any kind of coloring go directly onto the leather?

Btw, I am a "she" :D (need to check if I really missed to mention in my profile)

Julia

[LNLeather]

Hi Julia

Hope you had a nice Thanksgiving weekend!

After tooling I add a light coat of Neatsfoot oil to the leather... after casing and tooling

you will find that the leather has lost some of its natural oil. Some folks use Neatsfoot - some use Olive oil.

Then I let it dry for a day before I

1. add color - or

2. just let the piece spend some time in the sun for a natural 'sun" tan.

I just use water to dilute my dye and

Tan-Kote to dilute my Antique

although, others may use something else to dilute...

*You may find others have their own preferred products or procedures, but I think this is a good basic plan to start with

and then after some practice you might try something else that you like better. Some times you just need to

practice on scrap till you get it just the way you want it.

Finish comes last - after the coloring...

unless you have an area that you don't want the color to stick..

read ----> Some Tips On How To Use Antique

Hope this helps

[Cyberthrasher]

  On 11/26/2012 at 11:55 AM, jsb said:

Btw, I am a "she" :D (need to check if I really missed to mention in my profile)

Sorry about that. I think we forget to check that sometimes.

  On 11/26/2012 at 3:36 PM, LNLeather said:

I just use water to dilute my dye and

You use water based dyes though, right?

Any time you dilute/thin something you should be using the base of the product. For a water based dye, that base would be water. For alcohol based dyes such as Fiebings, then you would want to use alcohol, and spirit dyes would be spirits, etc....

If you put a finish on before you color, this will resist the color. It's a useful technique for covering large areas while leaving some spots uncolored. Just remember, it's called "Finish" because it's the finishing step.

[LNLeather]

  On 11/26/2012 at 4:14 PM, Cyberthrasher said:

You use water based dyes though, right?

Any time you dilute/thin something you should be using the base of the product. For a water based dye, that base would be water. For alcohol based dyes such as Fiebings, then you would want to use alcohol, and spirit dyes would be spirits, etc.

Hmmmmmm, I use Fiebings Leather dye and I have always used water to dilute.

I didn't think I had any problem with how it turned out.

What would be the difference in the end result if I used alcohol?