Tri Weave

[rickeyfro]

Is it just me or is it really hard to get a clean pattern with Tandy tri weave stamps? No matter how hard i try it seems the tool itself prevents a good crisp design. I know there has to be a reason for the major difference in prices between tandy stamps and other makers. Is the difference worth the price? Any suggestions on a good Tri Weave?

[Rawhide]

Is it just me or is it really hard to get a clean pattern with Tandy tri weave stamps? No matter how hard i try it seems the tool itself prevents a good crisp design. I know there has to be a reason for the major difference in prices between tandy stamps and other makers. Is the difference worth the price? Any suggestions on a good Tri Weave?

There is a BIG difference in the B/W tools from Tandy and other makers. The Tandy's can make a decent impression, but take considerably more effort to do so. Are you using a 2 lb mallet or maul? That can make a difference too. I seem to do better with my heavy maul for B/W tools.

I have a couple of Hidecrafter Basketweave tools and I think they give a far better impression than tandy's. That being said, I have a Barry King Crazy legs tool (which is a type of B/W) and the tandy version. The difference is astonishing. I can hit Barry's and give a clean impression with little effort, but the Tandy, takes everything I got, without risk of the tool slipping.

Marlon

[TwinOaks]

There's another aspect of the quality that Marlon mentioned....namely, how symmetrical the stamp is. Ever see the 'sale's that Tandy's been promoting? Ever wonder why they're trying to get rid of a whole lot of stamps? It's because several lots of them are poorly made; QC has apparently been outsourced too. Most of my 'new' b/w stamps are asymmetrical. I went through every d443 stamp in the Montgomery store before finding one that was even close to being cut the same on both sides. The 'geometric dots' set I bought won't make a stamped circle for anything. So take your triweave and mark one side of it (sharpie, nail polish, etc.) Then on a piece of scrap, get a GOOD impression with it. Next, rotate the stamp 120 degrees (1/3 of a circle) and place it back in the impression. Repeat. Does it match up PERFECTLY?

If not, that's a good reason why the pattern doesn't line up right.

[TomSwede]

There is a BIG difference in the B/W tools from Tandy and other makers. The Tandy's can make a decent impression, but take considerably more effort to do so. Are you using a 2 lb mallet or maul? That can make a difference too. I seem to do better with my heavy maul for B/W tools.

I have a couple of Hidecrafter Basketweave tools and I think they give a far better impression than tandy's. That being said, I have a Barry King Crazy legs tool (which is a type of B/W) and the tandy version. The difference is astonishing. I can hit Barry's and give a clean impression with little effort, but the Tandy, takes everything I got, without risk of the tool slipping.

Marlon

Can you call my supplier and tell them this?

Peter Main is their idol and they say he uses only Tandys and if I can't get a good impression I must practice more he he well I'm interested in getting the job quicker done really, so cleaner crisper and easier to use tools would still make me work faster wich I'm sure my customers would appreciate when orders pile up.

What I really would like to know now is what tools he is using, if you happen to read this Marlon or Peter? (so I can continue the debate with my supplier;-)

Tom

[Rawhide]

Can you call my supplier and tell them this?

Peter Main is their idol and they say he uses only Tandys and if I can't get a good impression I must practice more he he well I'm interested in getting the job quicker done really, so cleaner crisper and easier to use tools would still make me work faster wich I'm sure my customers would appreciate when orders pile up.

What I really would like to know now is what tools he is using, if you happen to read this Marlon or Peter? (so I can continue the debate with my supplier;-)

Tom

Tom, here's the catch to that statement. It's true that Peter uses quite a few Tandy tools, however, He modifies EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM! I didn't hear this from a friend or read it on a forum. Peter told me this in person, face to face. He says that NONE of the tools work the way they should when you buy them. So it's not just Peter's skill with a tool from tandy, it's what he does to the tool, as well as what he with the tool that makes his work unique and fantastic. And another thing you can tell your supplier is Peter doesn't use Tandy tools exclusively. He has some real gems, Don King swivel knife, Some Al Stohlman personal tools, his own designed modeling tool, etc...

Marlon

[TomSwede]

Thank you Marlon, I really appreciate it!

I prolly get into that debate with them again and I'll tell 'em allright. Now I understand they can't bring in exclusive tools for a single customer (Sweden is a tiny market) but quite frankly they try to bullsh** me around with such arguments instead of at least hearing me out.

Tom

[rickeyfro]

Glad to see its not just me, I was planning on getting some of the hidecrafter pro series, I was thinking of buying there set of sheridan tools all 20 of the procrafter sheridan collection for $198 according to the website.

[Rawhide]

Glad to see its not just me, I was planning on getting some of the hidecrafter pro series, I was thinking of buying there set of sheridan tools all 20 of the procrafter sheridan collection for $198 according to the website.

Here's an example folks. Try and guess which is Barry King's tool and which is Tandy's. I didn't alter the picture (other than sizing for posting) or the impression, I just hit them with the same intesity as I do when basket weaving.

Marlon

[superchute]

might check with hidecrafters about there mid priced tools i have some and there nice and there about 10 bucks each if i rember right .

Russ

[TwinOaks]

I think the biggest issue here is that Barry's tools are stainless steel that's been milled, filed, ground, and polished into shape. The Tandy tools, from my observation of MY tools, are definitely a lesser metal AND they appear to have a hard chrome finish. I say this because I've got a few that have been nicked/scratched and then had chrome flake off in small pieces. This last part is probably the culprit, as the act of plating the mild steel will fill in

the corners and round off the edges... slightly. Even a little bit will be enough to make the impression less defined.

A while back, I heard that Tandy wanted to buy back or borrow any of the OLD tools if people had them. The reason was to remake the dies for the tool, using the older version. Apparently, the casting dies (?) were fairly well worn out, and there were no 'master' versions to use.

[Rawhide]

I think the biggest issue here is that Barry's tools are stainless steel that's been milled, filed, ground, and polished into shape. The Tandy tools, from my observation of MY tools, are definitely a lesser metal AND they appear to have a hard chrome finish. I say this because I've got a few that have been nicked/scratched and then had chrome flake off in small pieces. This last part is probably the culprit, as the act of plating the mild steel will fill in

the corners and round off the edges... slightly. Even a little bit will be enough to make the impression less defined.

A while back, I heard that Tandy wanted to buy back or borrow any of the OLD tools if people had them. The reason was to remake the dies for the tool, using the older version. Apparently, the casting dies (?) were fairly well worn out, and there were no 'master' versions to use.

This is true. I spoke with Jim Linnell and he is collecting these tools to re die the masters. Also, FYI, Peter Main burns the chrome off of his tools.

Marlon

Edited August 17, 2008 by Rawhide

[BradB]

This is true. I spoke with Jim Linell and he is collecting these tools to re die the masters. Also, FYI, Peter Main burns the chrome off of his tools.

Marlon

Hmmm... how does he burn it off. with a propane torch and wouldn't you have to worry about rust?

[Rawhide]

Hmmm... how does he burn it off. with a propane torch and wouldn't you have to worry about rust?

I didn't ask. I assume a torch.

Marlon

[Michael Sheldon]

Hmmm... how does he burn it off. with a propane torch and wouldn't you have to worry about rust?

Not sure how you'd burn it off. But rust really isn't that big a deal. Many of my tools are not stainless, as long as I take care of them, the worst that happens is they get a nice patina.

There is one other reason to chrome-plate though. Chrome is a hard metal, they may be using it to protect the cheap crap metal underneath.

There's really no question in my mind that the Tandy craftool line is crap. Just looking closely at them shows that they are sloppy castings of multiple-generation copies. It only takes using one of the higher-end tools once to tell the difference. I still use a bunch of them, but I've been steadily replacing them as I can.

[colttrainer]

Hate to tell you folks this but chrome is not a hard metal. Chrome is thinner than tracing paper and comes off very easily. What makes chrome look so shiny is nickel and nickel unprotected rust. So don't worry about rust forming on your plain steel tool, you will get it at some point any way, just not as quick.

Al

[King's X]

Here is my two cents. I do this for a hobby, an expensive one by far. I have just about every Crafttool made and some old ones. I have been tooling for just over 2 years. I have been getting much better though far from a master anything close to it. I have recently made a decision to sell most of my Crafttools mainly because I have upgraded one by one to BK or Ellis Barnes. I do have to admit that it has been very tuff to make that transition mainly because the costs. Compare how many craftools I could buy for one shader or flower center. If I did this as a way to make a living either part time and full time, than I would buy the best to produce the best. My better half always says you get what you pay for. I figure at the rate I am going, I will change out my tools completely in about 2-4 years!

Side note: I recently spent some time with George Hurst and we discussed the differences between the Craft tools and his Pro Crafter series tools. He went into why the Craft tools basically suck and how he managed the maker of the Pro series to his specs. I have some Pro Crafter tools and I can say they are much better than Craft Tools. They are in the middle between CT and BK, etc. For the money, If I knew now back then, I would go with Pro Crafter as an initial investment at $7 each. Hell, even the Craft Japan tools at $5.99 might be better than the Craft tools.

Good luck

Greetings from Round Rock, Texas

[Jordan]

I was given about 10 craftools by a lady at church, they were her mothers so I would imagine they are from the 50's or early 60's and I can say with certainty that their quality is many times better than the stamps I have purchased in the last 2 years from Tandy. I believe tandy tools are good entry level hobby tools but as a person progresses in their leather addiction the benefit of higher quality tools outweighs the cost. I have not gotten there yet, as they say "yea sure not me, I can quit anytime I want"

Edited March 11, 2009 by Jordan

[hidepounder]

CraftTools were designed as entry level tools that enthusiasts could afford to buy. However, even in the 60's, when I first started, professional toolers were using tools other than CraftTools in order to produce high quality work. They were made at home out of nails and bolts or by machinests who produced them in their off time for friends. When Ray Hackarth began making tools, the pro's who could afford to, used them. Nothing has changed today...if you want to produce good work, you need good tools!

There comes a time for every tooler, where ones skill level exceeds what CraftTool can produce. Fortunately for all of us, there are a lot of great tool makers out there. Each of them are better at making some tools than others...it's a matter of personal preference. HideCrafters has done a great job of producing an intermediate line of tools, and I'm confident that CraftTool will improve the quality of their tools at some point...but they will still be entry level tools! If your serious about tooling, you need professional quality tools.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it! :soapbox:

Bob

[MarkB]

Here is my two cents. I do this for a hobby, an expensive one by far. I have just about every Crafttool made and some old ones. I have been tooling for just over 2 years. I have been getting much better though far from a master anything close to it. I have recently made a decision to sell most of my Crafttools mainly because I have upgraded one by one to BK or Ellis Barnes. I do have to admit that it has been very tuff to make that transition mainly because the costs. Compare how many craftools I could buy for one shader or flower center. If I did this as a way to make a living either part time and full time, than I would buy the best to produce the best. My better half always says you get what you pay for. I figure at the rate I am going, I will change out my tools completely in about 2-4 years!

Side note: I recently spent some time with George Hurst and we discussed the differences between the Craft tools and his Pro Crafter series tools. He went into why the Craft tools basically suck and how he managed the maker of the Pro series to his specs. I have some Pro Crafter tools and I can say they are much better than Craft Tools. They are in the middle between CT and BK, etc. For the money, If I knew now back then, I would go with Pro Crafter as an initial investment at $7 each. Hell, even the Craft Japan tools at $5.99 might be better than the Craft tools.

Good luck

Greetings from Round Rock, Texas

I too am replacing all my craft tools. I tooled a belt for my wife mostly with the craft tools then I got my Berry King and JWP tools in the mail so I tooled 1 section of the pattern in the middle with the new tools, then finished the rest with the craft tools. Next I showed the belt to some folks that did not know a lot about leather carving and they could pick out the place were I used the high end tools. That sold me . To make it to the higher level you need the highest end of tools you can buy. Today the high end tool maker use better machines to make the tools they are more square than even the the older high end stamps. I have some PB McMillan stamps that you can not turn the tool are you will have the pattern walk away from it's self.(it's not square)

Great Topic

Keep it up Mark

[Torquewrench]

I have seen Peter Main take a craft tool from the shelf, stamp an impression, in 3-5 minutes on his sandpaper pack modify it and start tooling that would make all of us drool.

Of course George Hurst will bash Craft Tools, he is a former Tandy employee who now has had to sell off Hidecrafter, but still remains an employee. I have some of Hidecrafters Pro-Series, they make great impressions, just don't use them too much as they are soft metal and will actuall deform in a short period of time. Everyone should use what they can afford. The more times you do the same pattern, it will get better, so comparing 2 items with diffrent tools done back to back will show improvement.

I turn wrenches for a living on frarm equipment, have tools from every company under the sun, they all put the bread on my table and allow me to be able to afford my hobby of leatherwork. Just loose a 35$ Snap-on wrench or a 5$ craftsman - witch hurts more?

[slickfork]

The best tri-weave I've seen is made by Robert Beard. www.robertbeardtools.com Comes in half a dozen sizes. He told me he actually designed the original tri-weave. Nice tools, worth the price. Ive been using a set of his bevelers for years...They are expensive but there comes a point where the quality of your work is limited by the quality of your tools.

[bruce johnson]

I think it has been pretty well discussed that low end stamps serve a purpose and fill a niche. For me they have let me try some different patterns with minimal outlay. I could run a $5 triweave and see that I don't like it much in my hands. The walking tools tend to be more forgiving and can be cleaned up easier. For me where the quality crosses the line is on set stamps - baskets, geometrics, borders, etc. You only get one hit and the impression is what it is.

[Doug C]

I think it has been pretty well discussed that low end stamps serve a purpose and fill a niche. For me they have let me try some different patterns with minimal outlay. I could run a $5 triweave and see that I don't like it much in my hands. The walking tools tend to be more forgiving and can be cleaned up easier. For me where the quality crosses the line is on set stamps - baskets, geometrics, borders, etc. You only get one hit and the impression is what it is.

Bruce,

I like the looks of that rope stamp to the right. Who makes it?

Another thing. I ordered a couple of stamps from Robert Beard last May in Sheridan. One of them was the tri-weave. He gave me a little lesson on how to run it. He told me it would be awhile before I got them. He was right. I'm still looking forward to using them.

Doug

[hidepounder]

Bruce,

I like the looks of that rope stamp to the right. Who makes it?

Another thing. I ordered a couple of stamps from Robert Beard last May in Sheridan. One of them was the tri-weave. He gave me a little lesson on how to run it. He told me it would be awhile before I got them. He was right. I'm still looking forward to using them.

Doug

Doug, he should also have told you to remove any knives, sharp objects or anything else that you could use to harm yourself with, from your bench, prior to starting with the Tri-Weave! It's a hard tool to run right, but looks really nice when you do!

The Tri-weave on the left is a Hackbarth, the one on the right is a Bob Beard. (photo complete with typical mistakes! )

Bob

[bruce johnson]

Bruce,

I like the looks of that rope stamp to the right. Who makes it?

Doug

Doug,

Both of the stamps on my scan came from Barry King.

Edit - Clarification - Both of the stamps on the right side came from Barry King. I had him make me up the rope stamp, the waffle stamp is his regular ol' order it and get it.