Like New Cobra 4 Machine With Accessories

[Troy1]

Selling my still new Cobra 4 machine. I bought it at the same time I bought several new Jukis to start my bag company. It was my plan to use this machine for sewing heavier leather bags but went into sewing more canvas and it was more machine than I needed. Machine is perfect with less than a bobbin load sewn through the machine. Accessories include heavy duty stand, table top, presser feet, needle plates, roller edge guide and 4 big pools of thread. Rare color, Steve offered me a choice of cream or brown when I bought the machine and I preferred having it match my other equipment Asking $2,000 firm. I'm in Portland Oregon. Please email philobag@gmail.com or PM

Thanks for looking!

[Horizon Trail]

Will you pay shipping to Mesa, Az for that price? 85203

[Catchndreams]

Its amazing how a cobra and a cowboy machine look the same. Their is a couple of other brands also. MMMMMM.

[BondoBobCustomSaddles]

Dennis, I have to LOL. I was looking at the pics, and then went to the next post and there it is my exact thoughts!!!

Bob

[Itch]

Check out Sewpro,Artisan,Stitchmaster...all look the same as well.441 clones

[Troy1]

Hey Guys, you are correct most of the castings originate from the same place as they are all 441 clones. Most of these companies offering these machines are small privateers and don't have R&D budgets to develop their own castings. That doesn't necessarily mean they're all the same though. When researching my buy, I found there are many ways to build up off that casting that leads to one machine being a bit better than another. Parts choices ultimately make a difference in how the machine sews out. Additionally, Steve, the owner of Cobra ran technical service for Artisan for years and really knows his stuff. He's a technician and a customer service guy first, and a salesman second. On top of that he's one of the few that Ive found that sincerely wants to help and not always needs to pocket a nickel every time for doing so. Not to say you wouldn't be happy with other machines too, but Steve goes beyond his competition in building up a 441 clone and most certainly stands behind his customers in supporting them any way he can. A search on this forum will confirm what I'm saying, buy a cobra and you a get a piece of Steve in the deal...priceless!

[particle]

I agree Troy - Steve has been great to work with, and is always very helpful. Too cool that you got to pick the color! Regarding the differences between the various manufacturers - I agree with Troy. The outsides may look the same, but when you start looking at the quality of the internals, you can start telling differences between the makers. I remember seeing a close-up of one particular internal part (from another brand of 441 clone) on YouTube that another owner needed to clean up to make the machine function better. I was having a similar issue with my machine. The other guy's machine needed some file work to clean up the metal part, as well as an adjustment - mine simply needed the adjustment because the steel piece was nicer from the start. I have very little knowledge about the machines themselves, but I don't regret the purchase one bit - I love my Class 4!

[Art]

The reason the clone manufacturers make clones is simply the availability of parts. Many sewing and parts suppliers handle parts for the 441, and that includes clones. Your local sewing machine repair shop (or Steve or Bob or Ron) can order you a part for a 441, and now even a short arm 9" 441 because there are enough of them out there to make handling parts profitable. Had to worry about those 9 inchers when they first came out, but they were an instant hit, especially at their price point. Watch out for any newer machine design wise as as not everyone (actually no one but the original designer) will have parts for it until it becomes a hit.

When buying a new machine, ask someone in the biz (not the guy you are buying it from) if parts are available for it and ask from whom. In the industrial world, all the Chinese stuff seems to be a clone of something popular, if it isn't, start worrying.

Art

[Sponge]

Made a deal with Troy at philosophy bag company to purchase this machine via email over the last few days. We made arrangements for me to pick it up today for X amount of dollars. Deal was finalized and left early this morning (he knew I was coming from Grants Pass, OR which is about 280 miles south of him and it would cost me roughly 150.00 in fuel). I get an email after I'm already most the way up stating that his buddy was going to pay full price and he shoulda checked his other emails so he's going to sell it to him. I tried calling him several times along the way before I received this email with no answer. Even after he sent me the email I tried calling him again several times with no answer. I emailed him back sitting off one of the exits in Portland stating that I had already made the drive like we had discussed the night before and that I'd wait around for about an hour to hear from him. He replied again about an hour later that he is selling it to his buddy sorry... It floors me that he would knowingly have me drive over 250 miles each way and not keep his deal. Not happy at all...

[sheathman]

Ouch. That woulda hurt.

[noeesp]

Wow that's not right at all

[BondoBobCustomSaddles]

Well I am no lawyer, but; it seems to me that at the very least, he had a verbal contract with you to sell it to you, moreover; emails should constitute a written agreement that should be binding, once you left your house to execute your end of the deal, he lost his ability to cancel the contract. Given that it (the sewing machine) is already gone, he should be liable to compensate you for your time and expenses incurred as a result of the deal. I would 1) total up what I felt I was owed, time (roughly 10 hrs X what you get paid as an hourly rate at your full time job) plus, expenses ( 500 miles X the current federal mileage allowance,which used to be .55 /mile, not sure what it is now, but; you can look it up on the internet) and 2) I am not sure what it is like out there in OR , but; I am pretty sure that there is small claims court, you can file for something like $15 to $25 with them, and let them haul his butt into court to deal with it. You should end up with something and he will find out what it is like to have to drive that distance and come up empty handed. Turnabout is fair play!!!

Bob

[lowlife]

x2 with bob

[Sponge]

After some thought, I have decided to look into at least recouping the expenses I am out. I will be filing a small claims suit, I sent him an email 2 days ago. If I don't hear back from him I will file Monday.

[ryankim3612]

Yeah, good for you.

TRUST may not be tangible, but it is important in business...... Even here on this little forum. (especially here, because I cannot afford to lose eve one deal, or take away one day's travel away from my family)

Words have meanings, and we need to TRUST each other that we will live up to our words.

The reason we have a court system is to give people who have been wronged a place to make things wright WITHOUT having to resort to violence.....

(I am now off my soap box. Thank you. now back to looking for a stitcher....Hahahah)

[shooter55]

Keep us posted as to progress on this. I deal quite a bit on forums and for the most part, have not gotten burnt, but have seen some horrendous outcomes. The world has changed, and not for the better.