Admire Someone's Unique Design, But Don't Want To Copy

[spooky]

Okay, in the process of seeing what is out there before starting a small business, I have found that someone has a unique metallic painted dog collar. It is simple, yet elegant. I've looked, and as far as I can tell, they are the only one's creating this work. First of all, please understand that I truly believe that it is wrong to copy someone's work, and not something that I would normally even consider doing. I have been toying with the idea of contacting the person we made these divine creations and asking for permission to copy them, but on some level that also feels wrong. I would not copy these without permission, unless the design or idea became commonplace.

I guess I am asking two questions.. would you contact the creator and ask for permission? And if you were the creator, what would your reaction be if someone contacted you?

[DoubleC]

I'm not sure I understand your dilemma. People use metallic paint on everything, so why not dog collars. Maybe it's because I haven't seen them yet but what part of these divine creations are you wanting to replicate? I mean all of it to the buckle and D ring? Do they have a metallic logo of some sort you want to copy too, like a silver elephant with gold tusks? Honestly I'm not being sarcastic but I would imagine if you did an internet search you could find dozens of places doing these.

How do I feel about being called to see if someone wanted to recreate one of my designs? I'd probably be pretty annoyed but I'd get over it because I only have one thing I do I consider unique and all my own. I think it's polite of you to ask but don't be surprised if they aren't pleased, especially if they think they actually came up with the collars uniquely. And perhaps they did although I'd just have to see one to think that.

If you plan to sell them wouldn't it be more rewarding to come up with your own design? Just my ramblings for what they're worth. Cheryl

Edited February 6, 2013 by DoubleC

[electrathon]

Personally I feel you have every right to do whatevery you want to do. Very little is unique in the world today, so it is super easy to demonstrate that everything anyone makes is from copying others.

But if you called me and asked me, I would tell you "No". If all I have to so is tell you not to compete with me and you choose not to, of course I will tell you no.

[Cyberthrasher]

I'm kind of in between. I gladly share my techniques and designs, but only as a way to educate people. If it were me and you called, I would tell you that you can use my physical design for inspiration, but if it looks just like mine then we'll have words. We're all supposed to be artists, so we should all learn how to modify designs and make them our own products. There was one time I contacted a friend, towards the beginning of our friendship, to see if I can utilize a design he had and make it my own. He didn't recognize my email address at the time and got pretty peeved because he thought it was just some random person asking to use his stuff. Once he found out it was me, he was more than happy to let me build on it. So, it's hit and miss when it comes to contacting people. You'll find that a lot of them are terrified of competition and will do whatever they can to keep their "secrets" safe, while others just want to make sure that it's not falling into the wrong hands. Me, if I get scared of competition, then it's time for me to re-evaluate my work and figure out what the problem is.

Now, if we're talking artwork, then that's a completely different story and you would get a big "NO!" with the encouraging words to say here's how you can create something similar.

Edited February 7, 2013 by Cyberthrasher

[lightingale]

I've had someone copy one of my dog collar designs before (blog post on it here: http://salukifeathers.com/213/im-flattered-my-first-copycat/). Let me tell you, it's not a good feeling to see someone use one of your own designs (one that you came up from scratch starting with a blank piece of paper and a pencil), particularly when they price their offering well below yours. It feels a little like you've been robbed.

One can argue that everything has been done before, but when the "copied" version numerous elements that are identical to an existing piece of art, it is obvious where the "inspiration" came from. That being said, there is very little an artist can do about someone copying their work, as lawyers are prohibitively expensive, so most artists have no choice but to ignore it.

"Metallic painted" dog collar is a little vague though. Crafters use metallic paint on many things. Incidentally, I also use metallic paints on some of my dog collars (which started when I decided to try mixing my metallic/iridescent/pearlescent makeup powders with leather finish). If you're just going to use metallic paint on your collars, I wouldn't consider that copying. If you use their tooling design and make something recognizably similar, then yes, that would be copying.

If you're going to start a business in leathercraft, what better way than to use your passion to create something uniquely your own? It's a beautiful feeling of accomplishment, to have people appreciate something that came from your own mind and creativity by purchasing it. It's what makes the business fun!

[spooky]

http://www.celtichound.co.uk/leather-straight-collars.php

Thank you all for your opinions, it has been very valuable. These are the collars that I am talking. It is not the physical design of the collar that I'm talking about, but rather the painted metallic tooling/stamps that I haven't seen before. Like Cheryl, I thought that ther must be other people out there doing similar things, but despite searching, I haven't been able to find anything. Until I do, I will have to assume that this is an original design. If I could find multiple people doing something similar, like there are with crystals and conchos, that woild be different. But I still have to admit that they ate gorgeous and stunning, but will just admire them for the time being.

[Cyberthrasher]

With that, I'd say as long as you're not doing hearts and butterflies, then there shouldn't be anything to worry about. We've all colored our tooling at some point.

[spooky]

Thanks Cyber. If you have a look around at the rest of their website, they do a lot more than that. Everything from dragonflys to bats to celtic knots.

Just racking my brain now on how to make something different and unique.

[Northmount]

Different spots, different conchos, different stamps, different order, your choice of colours. Putting stuff on a belt or collar is nothing new. Whether you use hearts, butterflies or elephants, have at it and arrange things the way that suits your mood. Now if you copied the exact layouts, colours, etc., then you would be copying what they have done. And yes, some of your conchos, spots, Tandy 3D stamps may be the same as some of theirs, but it is your arrangement and interpretation. What they have done is not new or completely unique. It's done all over the place.

If you copied Lightingale's unique pattern, that would be infringing on her art and expression. There is a difference.

Tom

[Cyberthrasher]

Yeah, almost everything i see there is still just an off-the-shelf stamp from Tandy or other manufacturers that they painted whatever color they liked. If you did the exact same stamp layout with the exact same colors, then I'd say you have a copying issue, but they don't have any claim on coloring the standard stamps available. In fact, I'm not really impressed with their use of the stamps. Go for it, get crazy, extend the pattern (especially the stamps that were designed to be used as a pattern and not a single impression), make it your own!! . If you're afraid of copying their use of conchos, don't be, since they're using the standard placement of those as well.

Tom, this is twice recently we've typed basically the same thing at the same time - get off my schedule!!

Edited February 7, 2013 by Cyberthrasher

[Northmount]

Tom, this is twice recently we've typed basically the same thing at the same time - get off my schedule!!

There's an old saying ... Great minds think alike, but fools seldom differ!

I'd have to say we have great minds.

Hard to change schedule, we're in the same timezone, and not that far apart.

Tom

Edited February 8, 2013 by northmount

[Cyberthrasher]

There's an old saying ... Great minds think alike, but fools seldom differ!

I'd have to say we have great minds.

Hard to change schedule, we're in the same timezone, and not that far apart.

Tom

My wife may go for the alternative

[spooky]

Yeah, almost everything i see there is still just an off-the-shelf stamp from Tandy or other manufacturers that they painted whatever color they liked. If you did the exact same stamp layout with the exact same colors, then I'd say you have a copying issue, but they don't have any claim on coloring the standard stamps available. In fact, I'm not really impressed with their use of the stamps. Go for it, get crazy, extend the pattern (especially the stamps that were designed to be used as a pattern and not a single impression), make it your own!! . If you're afraid of copying their use of conchos, don't be, since they're using the standard placement of those as well.

Tom, this is twice recently we've typed basically the same thing at the same time - get off my schedule!!

It's the layout and metallic colouring of the stamps that I like. The conchos aren't a problem, as I have seen them a fair bit.

To help me learn, may I ask why you are uni,pressed by their use of the stamps?

[Cyberthrasher]

Like I mentioned, a lot of them are stamps that were designed to be used in a repetitive nature and they just stamped them once, moved to the next third of the collar, stamped again, etc.... Now, a couple of them look good, but for the most part it just looks like they could have done so much more. On top of that, some of the ones that are of a subject that moves are repeated across the collar in a straight line. I think I remember a dragon fly on one for instance. That shouldn't be perfectly centered across the board, it should be turned and spun sporadically around. That one in particular would look really nice with some decorative swivel cuts showing movement, kind of like a wind trail behind it. The human eye doesn't like seeing things in a perfect symmetrical straight line all the time. Where we see curves, we don't want them lined up (like the hearts). If we see a subject that moves, it shouldn't look like the old caveman to human progression. We want to see lines that flow and mimic nature. If it's just a straight line all the time, it looks too sterile.

All of this is completely my artistic interpretation and completely up for experimentation. I'm just saying to trust your eyes. If something just seems "off", then figure out why. A lot of what I'm saying is discussed when researching the "Hogarth line of beauty". Do a google search and you'll see lots of information. Very critical stuff when it comes to human perception. Here's a wiki link to get you started

http://en.wikipedia....lysis_of_Beauty

basically, he found that EVERYTHING humans interpret as beautiful follows a specific pattern, and everything beautiful in nature has a specific curve to it, which is what's been named the Hogarth Line of Beauty. It's the gentle sloping lazy S curve that we see all over in leather, pinstriping, classical art, victorian and baroque art, horses, deer, even my MOTORCYCLE!!! (as I'm staring at a picture of it on my desktop) . Test it out and look for things in every day life that you're attracted to and see if you can find that lazy s curve in it's form. You'll be amazed. Ok, that's enough of the art lesson for tonight - I'm getting to the tired rambling portion.

Edited February 8, 2013 by Cyberthrasher

[St8LineGunsmith]

I wonder how many people are making and selling " Pancake holsters" after seeing one by the originator?... Hmmmm.

[TheCleverLeather]

I think you are worrying over nothing. If it was a tooled design that they came up with, then I would ask permission first. From the looks of it....they used stamps from the Tandy store. I have used the same designs/stamps on wrist bracelets and collars. The only difference between mine and theirs is that they painted the design. Anyone with a creative mind can do that, why not you too?.

[Destrier]

A month or two ago I thought I had this brilliant idea to fill a niche market, as I hadn't seen anything like what I had in mind. After getting to know more leathercrafters and poking around various web sites, I see it's all been done before. I'm going to go ahead anyway though because I'm not going to copy anyone's specific designs, and this is what I have a passion for. As a friend/mentor once told me, everyone has their own specific style. Make things your own - that's what I'm going to do!