Vinegaroon And Boning

[J Hayes]

I'm going to start using vinegaroon. This is what I think I should do, stitch everything, wet and mold doing all boning, dip in groon about 20-30 seconds wait about a minute rinse in baking soda water then a clear water rinse.

With all that extra moisture will my boning be lost?

Thanks

Jeremy

[D Fingers]

I'm my experience no. I all ways put the gun back in the holster before setting it aside to dry to double check fit, you could retouch boning if needed at this time. If using real gun bag it you don't want vinegaroon on the gun.

[J Hayes]

I'm my experience no. I all ways put the gun back in the holster before setting it aside to dry to double check fit, you could retouch boning if needed at this time. If using real gun bag it you don't want vinegaroon on the gun.

Do you use the baking soda rinse as well?

[D Fingers]

Yes. I used 1/2 cup baking soda to a gallon of water or something like that.

[chiefjason]

The baking soda rinse, or dip, is mandatory. It kills the chemical reaction between the groon and the leather.

You have to oil it too. The groon can strip the natural oils out. You may notice that it looks or feels drier than it should after the groon has dried. I started using 2 light coats of neatsfoot oil. As a bonus it deepens the black too. I usually waited 24 hours after grooning before oiling.

And don't go into it firm with your times. I brushed my groon on with a sponge brush. Sometimes one coat and it looked done. Sometimes 2. Sometimes 15 minutes later I still have spots not colored. A lot depends on the hide. And if your thread has a lot of wax you may notice that the sewn areas resist the groon longer. Though that may change if you are dipping. There were times I had to take a fingernail and work the light spot to remove the wax so the groon would take. It will take some trial and error to see how it works.

[steelhawk]

Question on the baking soda. When I used it, I got little white specks that I didn't like so I stopped using it. My water is 8.5 ph and I have been depending on that to stop any reaction. Am I ok, or should I go back to the baking soda?

[mlapaglia]

Go back to the baking soda but it sounds like you have too much soda in the water. That will cause the white specs. I use a heaping tablespoon per quart of water and that works fine for me.

[Chef niloc]

A few drops of ammonia In water, 1 teaspoon per gallon of water. Just to give you a ratio. Would neutralize any acid far better than baking soda ever could, And I doubt that small of an amount of ammonia would have much smell to it. Also note that vegetable tanned leather is on acidic side and not neutral. It's acidic state helps to preserve it. One of the things that the various leather conditioners do is to restore this acidic pH that might have been lost do to time or exposure to various alkalines. Look at it this way, we worry about leather drying out, right? It's oils that keep it from doing so. Thangs that are negative in pH or basic break down oils and make them a water soluble. Think about how soaps are made, add sodium hydroxide (strong base) to acetic oils.I personally don't feel the need to neutralize a week acid like vinegar but to each his own. It's actually the dissolved iron that's causing the reaction With the acids in the tannings of the leather. The vinegar is just used to dissolve the iron, If you're worried about the vinegar being too ascitic just cut it with distilled water to begin with. If you're worried about that cutting down the strength of the roon, then just make a stronger, more concentrated roon, then cut it, that's what I do. I actually use a stronger vinegar 7% compared to the normal 3%. I add ultra fine steel wool one pad at a time. When it's Dissolved I add another, I keep doing this till the woll pads won't dissolve any more. I then strain the liquid through a coffee filter, then add 2 cups of distilled water per cup of vinegar Iron solution. This roon produces a almost jet black look and has almost no smell to it at all, and its only 1.75 in PH. If you want a lighter color roon just add more distilled water. I have found this way too be more controlled and have less odor, However it does take longer to make in the beginning.

Edited February 10, 2013 by Chef niloc

[J Hayes]

A few drops of ammonia In water, 1 teaspoon per gallon of water. Just to give you a ratio. Would neutralize any acid far better than baking soda ever could, And I doubt that small of an amount of ammonia would have much smell to it. Also note that vegetable tanned leather is on acidic side and not neutral. It's acidic state helps to preserve it. One of the things that the various leather conditioners do is to restore this acidic pH that might have been lost do to time or exposure to various alkalines. Look at it this way, we worry about leather drying out, right? It's oils that keep it from doing so. Thangs that are negative in pH or basic break down oils and make them a water soluble. Think about how soaps are made, add sodium hydroxide (strong base) to acetic oils.I personally don't feel the need to neutralize a week acid like vinegar but to each his own. It's actually the dissolved iron that's causing the reaction With the acids in the tannings of the leather. The vinegar is just used to dissolve the iron, If you're worried about the vinegar being too ascitic just cut it with distilled water to begin with. If you're worried about that cutting down the strength of the roon, then just make a stronger, more concentrated roon, then cut it, that's what I do. I actually use a stronger vinegar 7% compared to the normal 3%. I add ultra fine steel wool one pad at a time. When it's Dissolved I add another, I keep doing this till the woll pads won't dissolve any more. I then strain the liquid through a coffee filter, then add 2 cups of distilled water per cup of vinegar Iron solution. This roon produces a almost jet black look and has almost no smell to it at all, and its only 1.75 in PH. If you want a lighter color roon just add more distilled water. I have found this way too be more controlled and have less odor, However it does take longer to make in the beginning.

I like your scientific approach, how are you measuring the ph?

I put 4 pads of 0000 steel wool torn in bits into a gallon of vinegar, after a day it produced a nice deep black on some scrap with about a 30 second dip.

Jeremy

[Chef niloc]

I'm using a stronger acid but I get one if the big bags if woll (think its a lb?) into a gal. of vinegar. I do it slow to cut down on the time it takes filtering it, about a week. I could just dump the whole bag in but it would take a long time as the will would not have as much surface area (that's why we use the 0000 stuff). What I have been meaning to try is to see if any other mettles make difrent "dye's". Using bronze wool comes to mind, I would think it would give a green, brown, blue type color compared to the blackish red iron makes.