Justis Cases Report post Posted August 29, 2008 Below is a case I just finished for one of my customers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shelly Report post Posted August 29, 2008 (edited) Below is a case I just finished for one of my customers. Now that is really nice work! Great case work, and probably some of the nicest floral carving I've seen on any of these custom cases...! Have you considered using some of that Stingray in your inlays?? (I'd imagine you already have done it, or considered it...) Edited August 29, 2008 by Shelly Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pete Report post Posted August 29, 2008 really nice!! Who did the carving and would you mind posting some close-ups? pete Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MADMAX22 Report post Posted August 29, 2008 Very very nice looking. Would not mind a couple of closer shots of the tooling and stuff. Great job. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
abn Report post Posted August 29, 2008 Hey, welcome back! You've been lurking, haven't you? It's great to see your stuff posted again. Best, -Alex Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sodapop Report post Posted August 29, 2008 (edited) "classy" just radiates off of that case Edited August 29, 2008 by sodapop Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Justis Cases Report post Posted August 30, 2008 Now that is really nice work! Great case work, and probably some of the nicest floral carving I've seen on any of these custom cases...! Have you considered using some of that Stingray in your inlays?? (I'd imagine you already have done it, or considered it...) I used stingray on one case and swore I would never use it again.....broke too many needles. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Froghunter Report post Posted August 30, 2008 I agree, very classy work. I too think the tooling is top notch. Seems like the fit and finish is superb! GREAT Work! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Justis Cases Report post Posted August 30, 2008 really nice!! Who did the carving and would you mind posting some close-ups?pete Hi Pete, Mr. Ron Ross, one of the best carvers in the country....IMO. Your not so bad either but you didn't seem interested in working with me...no hard feelings though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ArtS Report post Posted August 30, 2008 Man! that is beautiful work! ArtS Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tpsorion Report post Posted August 30, 2008 Very nice work. The detail in the carving is awesome. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shelly Report post Posted August 30, 2008 I don't think a name for the carver was offered...I stand by my first comment about the case/carving being nice work - overall, it is, and I've sure seen some that could be lots better...the up close pics of the carving shows me that he could yet improve on a great start...I don't claim to be 'the worlds best', far from it, but I've seen lots of it (and do lots of it) - and I do have my favorites amongst what I think I would call the 'elites' in the carving area...I also can't be presumptious to assume they are the 'only' people out there that are capable of producing really high quality work! I think it's an excellent cue bag, and I'm sure it's worth every penny...I think the carver would benefit from a couple of lines of constructive criticism, and you would see a huge difference in the looks of the carving when you get it 'up close and personal' when it's all come together in a bag as fine as this one...if you can do this level of workmanship in fit, finish, detail, sewing, etc, in the case-work, in my humble opinion, the carving should also reflect the same level - this carver looks to me to have lots of potential to be able to step from good to great....! I will not make any uninvited suggestions on here, tho...I can appreciate seeing nice work! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnBarton Report post Posted August 30, 2008 I don't think a name for the carver was offered...I stand by my first comment about the case/carving being nice work - overall, it is, and I've sure seen some that could be lots better...the up close pics of the carving shows me that he could yet improve on a great start...I don't claim to be 'the worlds best', far from it, but I've seen lots of it (and do lots of it) - and I do have my favorites amongst what I think I would call the 'elites' in the carving area...I also can't be presumptious to assume they are the 'only' people out there that are capable of producing really high quality work! I think it's an excellent cue bag, and I'm sure it's worth every penny...I think the carver would benefit from a couple of lines of constructive criticism, and you would see a huge difference in the looks of the carving when you get it 'up close and personal' when it's all come together in a bag as fine as this one...if you can do this level of workmanship in fit, finish, detail, sewing, etc, in the case-work, in my humble opinion, the carving should also reflect the same level - this carver looks to me to have lots of potential to be able to step from good to great....! I will not make any uninvited suggestions on here, tho...I can appreciate seeing nice work! Wow! I have seen Ron Ross' work up close on Jack's cases and it is outstanding. I am sure that there are some things that could be "better" in some people's eyes but you really have to see the cases in person to appreciate how they all come together. I am sure that there are lot's of opinions as to what really good carving is. I love Chas Clements' work for example and Jack doesn't think he is so great. Another very good cue case maker who is a good carver with tons of experience recently looked at Ross' work on Jack's case and declared it without flaws. Now you obviously don't agree but it's a matter of opinion. On that score I agree that there are carvers in the world who are unquestionably on another level as the rest of the world. I am unqualified to put Ron Ross in with that group nor even qualified to to make my own list of who that group is. I just want to say though that having been around the cue case business for about 20 years, Ron Ross' work is some of the very best to appear on cue cases. Frankly I am surprised to see that there are so few real "leather workers" who make cue cases in addition to what else they do. This is a perfect match to high end leather work. Most of you probably have no clue about where the custom cue market is at. There are well over 500 custom cue makers in the world with most of them in the USA. Cues go from $500 to hundreds of thousands. There is plenty of business for more case makers. I am sure that with the creativity shown by the members here that you would love to see your work as part of some high end collector's mueseum or better still on display as someone's daily use personal case. Take the opportunity to work with a cue case maker and offer to collaborate, or make your own. Anyway, that's my 2cts, worth about .000001cts on the reputation exchange rate chart. :-) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomSwede Report post Posted August 30, 2008 That is one classy looking cuecase! Above anything I just love the colour on this one, tooling feels almost secondary but that looks great too. The floral theme feels very right on this one. Tom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Justis Cases Report post Posted August 30, 2008 I don't think a name for the carver was offered...I stand by my first comment about the case/carving being nice work - overall, it is, and I've sure seen some that could be lots better...the up close pics of the carving shows me that he could yet improve on a great start...I don't claim to be 'the worlds best', far from it, but I've seen lots of it (and do lots of it) - and I do have my favorites amongst what I think I would call the 'elites' in the carving area...I also can't be presumptious to assume they are the 'only' people out there that are capable of producing really high quality work! I think it's an excellent cue bag, and I'm sure it's worth every penny...I think the carver would benefit from a couple of lines of constructive criticism, and you would see a huge difference in the looks of the carving when you get it 'up close and personal' when it's all come together in a bag as fine as this one...if you can do this level of workmanship in fit, finish, detail, sewing, etc, in the case-work, in my humble opinion, the carving should also reflect the same level - this carver looks to me to have lots of potential to be able to step from good to great....! I will not make any uninvited suggestions on here, tho...I can appreciate seeing nice work! Thanks for you comments. I posted the pic the "show off" section to do just that. If I wanted advice or comments on the case, I would have posted in the "Critique my work" section. I did this one other time and all it got was nit picking. I have tried serveral other top toolers who post here and none come close to Ron Ross in my opinion. I would be more than happy to receive samples of your best work and if it looks good to my eyes, we could do a test case. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bruce johnson Report post Posted August 30, 2008 Jack, Just to kind of put this into perspective from my viewpoint. It did get kind of nitpicky when you posted before. I think you asked or the thread changed into "who is the best carver" and I recall names came up like Jim Jackson, Don King, Chester Hape, Don Butler, Lloyd Davis, Stanley Dias, and others. In the meantime we have picked up people here on this forum (in no particular order) like Jim Redding, Troy West, Keith Seidel, Andy Stevens, Shelly Liggett, Brian Hochstrat, Greg Gomersall, Ryan Cope, Steve Mason, and apologies to others I unintentionally omitted who have posted or linked to their sites with really high end work. Some of these do contract carving, and they all do fabulous work. It might be helpful to gauge the work by knowing a general price range of what you pay for contract work to give some perspective. One of the functions of this board is to link leatherworkers with customers, and this really might work out for everyone's benefit or reinforce who is doing your work currently. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shelly Report post Posted August 30, 2008 (edited) Well, I did think twice about posting that comment - especially after I'd read all the flack about 'constructive criticism'...I may just have to act like a turtle and keep my head and neck in my shell! The young man that works for me is a pool fanatic - we've looked at multitudes of these cases, as he is very interested in making them himself - personally, the 'meat and potatoes' of my business is custom saddles, and custom braided gear - emphasis on the saddles. I make custom chaps, chinks, belts, notebooks, etc (we also have a great reputation for getting saddle repairs in/out in less than a week, so have quite a few of the local horse trainers spoiled!) - to top all that off, I do most of my bookwork myself, as well as doing the billing, etc for my husband's training business - I have a reining horse I ride and show, as well as others coming up, and I raise and show Toy Fox Terriers - had a man in the shop yesterday that is a custom spur maker, and he thinks I should get into doing my own silver engraving - thinks I'd be really good at it - my question to him, and anyone else suggesting that I start up something additional, is 'When do I have time to fit that in?? I would rather try to keep improving in the areas that I work in now - so, to that end, I try to apply myself. Personally, I don't think that when I post pix, these are of my 'best' work, as I hope that will always be in the next job I do, in order to be striving to do a better job than the last time. The past pix are examples of work I did that I liked the end result on, even tho I can look at each piece and find things I'd do a little different next time. I also personally use what I make - as does my husband - and I don't think anyone here can be as critical as he is! My point in the comments were to first give a genuine compliment - If I didn't think the fit, finish, detail, stitching, etc, of the case were noteworthy, I probably wouldn't have posted any comment at all. From a distance, I don't think anyone can tell much - pix that show good detail help - and I will post a couple here for you and everyone else to see of some of the most recent carving work I've done...is it 'the best'?? I personally don't think so - and I also think that once you start to believe that what you do is better than anyone else, and you don't have anything more to learn, then you are lost forever. I try to learn something every day - even if it's something I tell myself 'sure don't ever want to do THAT!' I see it in my work, training horses, raising/showing dogs, etc. Sometimes a small change in your approach to something will make all the difference in the world in the end... Most 'ordinary' folk, be it the general public, 'horse' people, 'dog' people, etc, can't 'see' the differences in the work that would take a piece from 'good', to 'great', to 'art'...I don't especially like wines (other than the cheap variety you drink from the bottle in a bag - think 'Boones Farm') - but I sure can appreciate the people I know that understand it and can explain what makes great wine! I also know that what they like, I don't necessarily have a taste or developed a palate for, and it's the same in this business. Some are happy with a 'generic' cue case from Wal-mart, and would never pony up the dollars for a case such as yours, ever - same as the horses - and gear we use - some would spend $35,000+ for the show horse, and the gear would be in the same realm - and within this group, we have those people that 'know' what makes a horse worth that, and the gear worth that, and you have these others that just want to tell people that's what I spent, and haven't got a clue - thinking that the price they paid must make it's value so - (not true). I know people that have trained and learned from the same 'master saddler' - and years later, the work between these students of said master saddler are as different as night/day, yet they learned the same stuff - and so it goes. I have many 'inspiring' teachers - Keith Seidel taught me how to properly rub edges on my strapwork in the early '80s, when he was just getting started out on his own (I really don't know how many years he worked for various shops before I first met him) - he moved from Scottsdale to CA, now in Cody - and I've followed his progress and enjoyed seeing his success - my husband and I had two saddles from him back then as well. When I went to Sheridan about 8 years or so ago, I went to Cody and visited his shop - and I loved being able to see how his shop was laid out, the whys, etc, and the store itself is an education as well. A big education was also had in Don King's museum - lots of learning can be done there! (Don has some of my braiding in there - and I have a really nice set of tools he made for me!) Anyway, I will end this now with a tip of the hat to all who make an actual living doing what we do - it's people like Keith Seidel that make me believe we can be successful at this work, and make a good living doing it, if we continue to work at getting better at what we do - so much has to do with your mind-set and attitude! I did want to also say that the pic of the case with the stingray was beautiful - even if you had to break some needles to produce it! I've also been told to be careful what you do and put out there - if you don't necessarily want to do lots of it, but it looks cool, better make sure you charge enough to make it worthwhile - as it will most likely be asked for a lot! Now that I read in these posts that Ron Ross did the tooling - I think he does do a nice job - but will stand by my first comments - together, and overall, this case is heads/tails over much of what I and my assistant (the pool nut that has plays at least 3 times a week in leagues, etc - he makes some very nice cue stick holders that you put on the edge of the table to keep the stick from rolling off on the floor, and these are customized for the customers - I've even done a floral layout for him on one - he tooled and finished it). If you would be interested in the few, and I do emphasize 'few' small adjustments I think Mr. Ross could do to improve on what he's doing, I would be happy to say so - if not, no worries! (and, just so you all know - I HATE doing Oak Leaves - and I don't particularly like even this layout, as they are very hard to get a pretty 'flow' with...etc) Edited August 30, 2008 by Shelly Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shelly Report post Posted August 30, 2008 (edited) FYI - I am not 'hunting' business as a contract carver - most people that want to contract don't want to pay what it's worth - I personally am not interested in doing contract work unless I can expect to be paid at least $25.00 per hour for my labor...my shop labor is set at $35.00 per hour, and I pay my help 20% of the repair work that I charge to customers, that he has done the labor on - since I pay piecework, he doesn't have to punch a clock and he feels he is paid pretty well - depends on how efficiently he works, and if he works at it a little at a time or...-it's up to him! The more efficiently he works, the more he makes... These additional pix are of a cutting saddle done earlier this spring, and a few examples of a cheek piece for a bridle, 5/8" wide, with rawhide knotwork and also shows the basket used, and how the stitching looks - the other pic is a Roohide bosal - twisted rawhide core, 16 plait on the body, two colors of interweave in the nose button and heel knot...and a backbraided hanger, of indian tan latigo...and a pic of a full hackamore set, with a Blind Bob rope, all braided up to match - made for a customer that shows pleasure horses... Take the gloves off, and let 'er rip - (I know the saddlemakers see plenty - I had posted a pic earlier of detail on a saddlehorn, and I'd inadvertently flipped the thing around to get the best 'look', and forgot to check it out myself - the wrap was 'wrapped backwards' in the pic, but not on the real thing! Keith asked the question that all the saddlemakers that noticed it were wanting to but didn't - so now I make a note to check this as well when I save edited pix!) Edited August 30, 2008 by Shelly Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ArtS Report post Posted August 30, 2008 Wow! This is some beautiful carving on this saddle! I also love the cue case. I keep coming back to this thread to look at it again. The quality is just amazing to me. The great thing about this site is that we all learn from each other. Even the best sometimes learn something new from the beginners. The newbies are definitely learning a lot here if we pay attention. It amazes me the different styles that there are. That is something that really surprised me when I got started. I've bought as many books as I could and I'm still shopping. I attend classes when I can. Ron is excellent and has given me a lot of help. Chan Geer has also been a huge help. Bruce has given me a great deal of guidance that has really helped me in a lot of different aspects. I can keep going on about others that I have studied in books & DVDs not to mention yawl here on this web site. A BIG THANK YOU TO ALL OF YOU! Keep up the great work and please keep posting it. Besides learning from the pictures it's also very inspiring. I hate to see anyone get upset with our discussions. They really do help and I don't think anyone intends on cutting anyone down or hurting anyone's feelings. Lets keep it friendly and we'll all benefit. Thanks again!!!! ArtS Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Roger Report post Posted August 31, 2008 very nice!! i love the case. nice to see you posting more of your work. ron does great work and is one that has inspired me to try some sheridan carving. i am slowly gathering the tools and play with it now and then Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Justis Cases Report post Posted September 1, 2008 Take the gloves off, and let 'er rip - (I know the saddlemakers see plenty - I had posted a pic earlier of detail on a saddlehorn, and I'd inadvertently flipped the thing around to get the best 'look', and forgot to check it out myself - the wrap was 'wrapped backwards' in the pic, but not on the real thing! Keith asked the question that all the saddlemakers that noticed it were wanting to but didn't - so now I make a note to check this as well when I save edited pix!) Wow, you sure have a lot to say just to answer one question. Just kiddiing with you! I'm sure if you post your pics in the Critique section, you will get what your asking for. Which is not a bad thing at all, if that's what your looking for. I liked your comment about the wine....many so called wine experts couldn't tell the difference between cheap or expensive in a blind test expecially after having a few taste.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Justis Cases Report post Posted September 1, 2008 Your going to have this party by yourself if you think I'm getting into the mud with these hombreys. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ArtS Report post Posted September 1, 2008 I just went to your site. I tell you your work is REALLY IMPRESSIVE! That's the first time I saw the interiors. I don't see how you do it. Fantastic work. You have me as a fan. ArtS Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shelly Report post Posted September 1, 2008 Take the gloves off, and let 'er rip - (I know the saddlemakers see plenty - I had posted a pic earlier of detail on a saddlehorn, and I'd inadvertently flipped the thing around to get the best 'look', and forgot to check it out myself - the wrap was 'wrapped backwards' in the pic, but not on the real thing! Keith asked the question that all the saddlemakers that noticed it were wanting to but didn't - so now I make a note to check this as well when I save edited pix!)Wow, you sure have a lot to say just to answer one question. Just kiddiing with you! I'm sure if you post your pics in the Critique section, you will get what your asking for. Which is not a bad thing at all, if that's what your looking for. I liked your comment about the wine....many so called wine experts couldn't tell the difference between cheap or expensive in a blind test expecially after having a few taste.... I'm actually a Margarita girl, myself....! As to having a lot to say - what do you expect?? I'm female - most of (not all!) us are this way - personally, I've found most men to be very similar to what Jeff Foxworthy has said in his dialogs - 'We are very simple creatures! Give us a beer and show us something 'Nekked'!' (Just teasing all of you guys out there...!) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
