Singer 16-41?

[leecopp]

Hey CD,

I have a Singer 78-1 model running very nicely. Great for wovens, probably light leather as you noted. Very capable sewer, but very few feet available in modern times. There is a Consew 28 which appears very similar. It is of my standard herd of 4 .. 78-1, 42-5, 31-15, Anker RZ. 

Here is a fun youtube link:

 

[CowboyBob]

Lee,nice looking machine & video !

 CD the 42-5 was made for larger thread up to #346 where the 16 class can use up to 207 with some fiddling.

Edited October 12, 2016 by CowboyBob

[cdthayer]

OK, I removed the face plate on my 1917 Singer 16-41, and here’s the scoop...

There are only three screws attaching the face plate instead of the “4” that I mentioned earlier.

Nothing can “fly out” of the head when the face plate is removed, but be heads-up, the presser bar hand-lift lever can fall out if the outer foot linkage is allowed to swing outwards.  The lift lever simply pivots on a round stub, and the foot linkage keeps it on that stub.  The face plate keeps the foot linkage from swinging out.

I reset the needle bar height with the needle clamped in the proper position while I was in there.  The needle bar clamp is the type of clamp that has one center screw that is accessed through a hole in the head casting under the arm.  Straight access to the screw head is provided when the bar has reached BDC and came back up to intersect with the hook.  With the needle plate off, the hook and needle are plainly visible to set the bar height.  There’s no scarf on the Organ 16x63-18 needles that I got to use in it, so I just eye-balled it with the thread hole in the needle.  It test-sewed just fine.

Everything in the head looked good, but a few things didn’t get oil when I oiled from the outside.  Next time I’ll give it more oil to make sure that it leaches to everything that needs oil.  I just hate putting in too much and having oil running down the feet and needle, so I try to oil sparingly.  All of the rollers are free-turning and don’t show any flat spots, so I think the machine has been well maintained even though it looks like it has been used pretty hard.  I appreciate the past owner or owners for breaking it in for me.  It really turns over freely.  Just what I need for treadle operation.

CD in Oklahoma

 

[TinkerTailor]

If you fold up a paper towel and put it under the foot when not sewing, then give the feet and needle a quick wipe before you start, your oil problem will be solved. Its better to do it this way than risk under oiling to avoid drips.

I sometimes have issues with aligning smaller needles cause my eyes are old and i hate wearing my glasses. One trick is whittle down a toothpick or something so it fits in the needle hole and then use that as a guide for needle alignment. They sell cheap plastic tools for this. The other trick is to use small smooth jaw needle nose and gently grab the needle right at the eye on the flat sides while inserting it. This will give you a reference to align the needle by.

As far as oiling, the heads of machines usually have a hole for oil access from the outside for all of the oil points. Factories DO NOT want the user to take the machine apart for oiling. Sometimes you will have to rotate the machine until the oil hole in a shaft appears through the hole in the body. In other cases inside the head, there are places that are gravity fed, and by putting oil into the holes at the top, it works its way down. In alot of cases all the slidy bits inside will be gravity fed and rotational bearings will have an oil hole. While you have it apart, try to find the hole at all the rotational points, and see if they line up with holes in the casting. They usually will and can be oiled with a long neck micro oiler.

Oil well and oil often. Oils well that ends well.

Edited October 23, 2016 by TinkerTailor

[cdthayer]

Good advice TinkerTailor, but I’ve learned that a little oil goes a long way, and too much tends to just attract lint and dirt build-up.  Now that I know what things look like inside the head on this one, it’ll be easier to feel confident that everything gets oiled from the access holes.  I use a syringe with a long needle to draw oil out of a bottle and direct it to the points in the machines.  Later on, I’ll still be popping the face plate off once in a while to clean out the lint, and give everything personalized oil attention then.  I’ve found that if I raise the take-up lever to its highest point on a lot of machines, the oil points tend to line up the best with the outer oil holes.  This one looks like it’s going to be the same way.

I have an old broom in my shop that has small enough straws on it to fit my relatively small needle eye holes (lots of 18s and 20s in my shop).  I align the needle eye with a straw in it, and then save the straw when I can.  Sometimes they get away from me and I have to go to the broom for another one.  My broom should last long enough for me to expire.  And I have a good excuse to not sweep anything with it.....

I learned something else about this 16-41.  I think it’s got a substitute needle bar in it.  It’s missing the thread guide that rides on the bar at the needle clamp, so I dug around in my parts and found a guide and mounting screw.  But the needle bar travels up into the head to where the screw hole almost disappears, so the screw interferes with the bar travel.  That’s why there isn’t a thread guide on it.  So, I’d say that the bar came out of a different machine.  I’ll dig around and see if I can find a good needle clamp that has a thread guide built into it, or just leave it like it is without that guide.  It will sew fine without it.

One thing about firing these old machines back up, is that they’ve sometimes been a lot of places, sewn a lot of things, by a lot of operators, worked on by a lot of mechanics, and had a lot of parts replaced.  Sometimes, the “proper” part wasn’t available, so a substitute was made that worked.  That’s what mechanics used to do.  You never know what you’re going to run into on the old iron.

CD in Oklahoma

 

[Darren Brosowski]

I generally suggest oiling AFTER you finish sewing for the day then clean it up next time you sew. ALWAYS run a bit of scrap through first.

The first thing I do with every old machine is a good clean up to get the built up oil, lint and crap out of the machine. Pull off all of the covers, take out the presser foot bar and needle bar and anything else easy to put back in. If the machine is really cruddy I also remove the two feed dog bars so I can clean out the bearing surfaces.

It might seem daunting but start with a Singer 15 class machine and if you can get that working again then you will have no problem with a 16, 17 or 18 class machine as they are essentially the same. Even the 31 is essentially a super heavy 15

 

 

[cdthayer]

5 hours ago, Darren Brosowski said:

I generally suggest oiling AFTER you finish sewing for the day then clean it up next time you sew. ALWAYS run a bit of scrap through first.

I agree.  It gives the oil time to leach where it needs to go, and any excess can get drained off for a wipe-up.  Test-sewing the machine on a piece of scrap to avoid oil contamination on the work also confirms that the machine is threaded right and the tensions are still set good.

I got to use my Singer 16-41 to make a little income for me yesterday.  I sewed a badge holder onto a winter jacket that has a squirmy lining inside of it.

CD in Oklahoma

Edited October 25, 2016 by cdthayer

[Cascabel]

After I oil my machines, I always place a piece of absorbent fabric under the foot, and lower it on top of the fabric, and in addition, I lower the needle into the piece of fabric to catch any oil that runs down from the needle bar.   

[leecopp]

Great Lubrication Tips Guys .. Some of mine see only sporadic use, so oiling at the end of the session would be a good idea. Needle down is also a good tip as I often see a drop of oil at the end of the needle when I startup (Hi , My name is Lee and I over-oil .. hi Lee).

Greetings from Central Florida where temperatures are finally getting temperate again. Last lawn mowing of the year is coming up .

 Of course I have been sewing polar fleece sleeping socks for the family,  having reached that cold feet age and stage myself.

 

Lee

[cdthayer]

2 hours ago, Cascabel said:

...always place a piece of absorbent fabric under the foot, and lower it on top of the fabric, and in addition, I lower the needle into the piece of fabric.....   

Good advice if you use your machine regularly, but be cautious if you’re in a high humidity environment (like Oklahoma) and only use your machine sporadically or put it into storage.  Unless the fabric is totally saturated with oil, and even then, sometimes the oil has enough evaporation that the fabric can absorb moisture out of the air and rust the needle plate, foot, and even the needle.

CD in Oklahoma

[Billroy1]

Hi folks, enjoying this somewhat recent thread and the info on oiling and operating these, since it applies directly to my 1924 16-141 machine.  I plan to put it onto my domestic treadle stand at some point.  CD did you change the pitman arm length for more leverage or slower motion (or both)?   My 16 also came with an original knee lift but I will need to remove the wooden drip tray on the treadle stand to access the machine underside.  Sounds worthwhile.

Now, a bunch of questions, so any feedback is appreciated.  

One thing I noticed was that the tension disc release lever 4378 actuated by the knee lifter is incomplete on my machine.  Looks like the hook extension on the "knee lifter bracket end" is broken off.   The machine also has a damaged tension disc assembly spring 2124.   Based on illustrations for the -141 variant here. http://parts.singerco.com/IPpartCharts/16-137_141.pdf 

CD, any images of these on your machine would be helpful. I am having skipped stitches which may be caused by poor adjustment of this spring.   I assume these parts are hard to find new.  I did find a decent used Simanco PN 3126 guide on the auction site.   The original one has failed rivets on one of the bosses so the outer foot would twist "pigeon toe" during travel.  We'll see how that replacement goes.  

Also, are the small flat outer feet I see on the 16-41 and the 42-5 labeled with a simanco #?  Mine has a jagged welting foot which is unforgiving to smooth leather, but instead of modifying it I wanted to replace it and then have a few options for material feeding.  That welting foot may work well for canvas and webbing.   Are the outer feet universal "low shank" or unique to this model (i.e. Singer 16,17,18,consew 18) like the inner foot is?

Finally, when the bobbin holder is removed, there is some wiggle in the hook.  It moves up/down about 1/8 in.  The race looked ok when I removed it and examined, but not sure how much slack there should be between the oscillating shuttle driver (or lever) and hook.  

Cheers

Bill

Edited July 18, 2017 by Billroy1

[cdthayer]

On ‎7‎/‎18‎/‎2017 at 7:52 AM, Billroy1 said:

CD did you change the pitman arm length for more leverage or slower motion (or both)?  .....are the small flat outer feet I see on the 16-41 and the 42-5 labeled with a simanco #?  

 

Bill

The pitman rod (and flywheel) is from a domestic-use smaller treadle.  I had to make the pitman longer for the larger industrial stand.  I’ve since moved the 16-41 to a regular industrial treadle (16” flywheel) to use the Frankenstein treadle (12” flywheel) to run a 78-3 needle-feed machine to do straight-line quilting.  The smaller flywheel slows it down a tiny bit, but not much.

 

The outer foot on my machine is part #3136, modified by cutting the right toe off.

 

I don't know what number tension spring mine has.

 

CD in Oklahoma

 

[cdthayer]

Rant:  Billroy1, are you one of those east coast liberals that wants everything for you, and to hell with the rest of us?  Why don’t you put some information about yourself in your profile?  Your “About Me” says “coming soon”.  BS.  Put it in there or shut up.
I wish that I had checked that before giving you the photos that you wanted.  I’ve had it with the radical activists swooping in to turn a good forum into crap.  First it was a radical feminist in NY that wanted to take the stage, what is your cause?

CD in Oklahoma

[Billroy1]

CD, I appreciate your sense of humor!  Yeah, I have noticed that not as many folks on LW.net live in my neck of the woods, but this site is international, so what did I have to lose, right?  Seems like a nice crowd, even you!  Radical activist isn't what I was after in my post above, just sewing machine talk, same as everyone else on this forum.  I can't lay claim to being an eastern liberal nor a radical feminist either.  I will leave that to others to pursue.  While I have mentioned my interests in a prior post, you're right about also including that in my profile, which I can address.  But I do thank you for your great pix and info, and will post some in-process pix of my machine rebuild.  Cheers!