Patent Infringement: Shotgun Concho Dog Collar

[camano ridge]

Don't be detered from free enterprise by some scam artist. The shotshell casing end decoration was not invented by him they have been for sale for many years. THe purpouse for them was to adorn leather crafts of all types. They have been put on everything from belts to holsters to purses and yes even dog collars. I did one like that for a duck hunter back in about 2006 and have done a few since then. It is such a basic design element that I would never have thought of patening it simply because I put a concho on a strip of leather. I believe that person would have a hard time defending it as his original design. You want to sell it sell it (not legal advice just what I would do). If it is a scam that person is unlikely to spend the money on attorney to pursue you. It looks like they are just hoping you are an easy mark and can get money from you without earning it.

[HellcatLeathers]

Okay, he wrote me back the following:

"At the moment I too make all of my products by hand. I drive an 89 Nissan pick up. A few years ago I began the patent process, knowing as time went on that people were begining to make my product but under the advise of my lawyers I have waited until the patent was completely finished to begin this end of the process. If you would like to continue to carry this design I am willing to license you to do so if we can come to agreeable terms. Thank You."

I then responded with:

"Hi Adam,

You haven't provided me with copies of your patent papers which should include pictures and exact specifications of your "design". How can I stop making them if I don't even know what they look like? I might not even be making your design. I am sure I can find them online, but since you brought this to everyone's attention, it would be nice if you provided the documentation you say you have.

Please don't waste my time or the time of the other leather workers you emailed. Time is money.

By the way, my full time job is at a law firm, so I am a little familiar with the patent process.

Please provide the info I requested, and I won't make your design going forward. No problem.

Thanks,

Maria"

He then responded with:

"My patent is for a band having spaced bullet cartridge elements as the attachment that I put on the last email would explain. I sent you another copy of my Issuance Notification, with the patent number on it, the actual Ribbon is sent in physical form. You are correct that it is public information, and you can look up the specifics yourself if you would like. Ill simplify it a bit for you though, any type of band that has bullet cartridge elements on it, ie... dog collars with shotgun shell conchos in any size or variation, belts, hatband, etc. On a personal note dont tell me what to do with my time, I too am a leather worker, I also build houses, and have a family, so I know full well the value of time. Thank you and have a pleasant day."

I then responded with:

"Hi Adam,I didn't get the first attachment, so thanks for sending it again. Upon reviewing it, it isn't a copy of your patent...it is a copy of the patent issuance letter. I still don't know what your item looks like. Since you hold a "design patent" it is imperative to know what the design actually looks like so I can ensure I don't replicate it. Can you please provide a picture of your design?

Thanks!

So....long story short....he's just fishing for licensing fees and hasn't provided any photos of his "design" at all! Aggravating to have to waste time on this.

Edited May 14, 2013 by HellcatLeathers

[Cyberthrasher]

The best part about that is that he thinks he owns a patent on anything with bullet cartridge elements!!!

"any type of band that has bullet cartridge elements on it, ie... dog collars with shotgun shell conchos in any size or variation, belts, hatband, etc."

So, he now owns the patent on any and every cartridge belt ever made, all the guitar straps that were ever made with bullet loops, and anything else that's in "band" form which contains something that would go on a bullet. Think about all those 80's rockers that copied his future patent by putting "bullet cartridge elements" on their belts and everything else!! Oh wait, you can't manufacture that rifle sling with bullet loops, this guy owns the patent on it. This is the kind of thing that would make me want to figure out how to file a formal challenge on it. It's the principal of the matter and it's a blatant abuse of the systems that were put in place to protect honest entrepreneurs.

[dirtclod]

So now i'm wondering if the people that make the conchos are violating his patent by making the conchos available to the public....HUMMM. If that's the case i guess he should be sueing them to...LOL.

[camano ridge]

I did notice that in the thumbnail of the design patten it says as shown below. Well what is shown below is 7 conchos on a band so use any number except 7 and you are not infringing on his patten

[MakerUnknown]

I guess I would tell him that you want a letter in the mail from his attorney on a letterhead explaining this. Time to cut him out of the picture.

Edited May 14, 2013 by MakerUnknown

[penguineer]

Definitely sounds like a troll. You'll find the cost of settlement is less than the cost of getting a lawyer involved(at which point the troll often walks away).

I think someone should do a bit of community service and take it to Tandy - let them know that their customers could be sued for using their products and they may be infringing by continuing to promote use of their products in this way(they have videos on leathercraftlibrary for steampunk wristbands using bullet/shotshell conchos).

Perhaps I should patent "use of braided, twisted or woven material, natural or artificial, to attach two pieces of leather by a method of interweaving or knotting said material through holes in the leather". I'm willing to start taking settlement payments at $1000.....

I'm thinking perhaps it might be worth it having a look at fightcopyrighttrolls.com or dietrolldie.com - the guys over there are a bit more familiar with the issues, can tell you if you've got a problem and ways to deal with it. Unfortunately, from what I've heard, the best way to deal with these sorts of things is to not respond in the first place.....

The whole thing works by having reasonable people try to sort things out like reasonable people....

Cheers!

Edited May 14, 2013 by penguineer

[HellcatLeathers]

I received another email from Adam today:

"Again any type of band ie bracelet, collar, belt, hatband, choker, guitar strap, gun strap, with the round end of a bullet in any way used in the making. currently you are making dog collars with a 12 ga concho, that or anything like that. Pat # D677 191. I am a very busy person, look it up on the USPTO website if you want to see the drawings. This is the last of my communication to you. If necessary the next response will be a notice from my lawyer. Please take any reference to my product off the websites, and cease to manufacter any product that consist of any kind of band with bullet elements that are facing forward.Thank You."

I was angry at this point. I emailed Tandy Leather on their website and would you believe that I actually got a response within a couple hours? I even got an email this evening from the Senior Vice President. He thanked me for my email and asked that I give him a day or two and he would get back with me.

In the meantime, I received an email from a fellow leatherworker that Adam had also emailed. Paul from M&F Western Products. He emailed Adam the following:

Dear Adam,

We have been doing a band with spaced bullet cartridge elements in various forms for approximately 10 years which would predate your patent filing. It looks like you are the one infringing upon M & F Western Products.

If you would like you can have your patent attorney call me.

Thanks

Paul Eddins

M & F Western Product

LOL. So at this point, I'm going to see what Tandy says and I think I'm not going to respond to him any further.

[Frank]

I looked at the "patent" and stating the obvious, he says that it includes bullet cartridge elements and a concho that you purchase from Tandy or any other place, was never a bullet, shell, or cartridge at any time. So, it does not contain cartridge elements.

The other thing being, if anyone has a photo of a cartridge concho belt, band, collar, etc. that was added to their website prior to 2011, you can blow this guy completely out of the water as infringing on prior art. Tandy can do the same since they had these conchos to be used on leather "bands" prior to this guy.

That being said, just do not use the same number of conchos that he has shown on the drawing.

[ChuckBurrows]

Yep appears to be a scammer as I noted above and as normal he's going after the little guys who he figures won't know better- here's a Google search for shotgun shell conchos - note some of the makers/sellers of his so-called patented item are big time like Nocona, Browning, Sheplers, Roper, and Mossy Oak, bet their lawyer won't deal - might be worth while spreading the word..... https://www.google.c...erp.0IeU4G1Jw2M unfortunately the current Patent Office has been real lax in back checking whether something is really patentable - they just collect the money and.....

Edited May 15, 2013 by ChuckBurrows