Singer 45K25 Dos'nt Like Linen Thread?

[courtney]

I recently got a singer 45k25 and it sews fine with the 92 thread that I have but when I put the 3 cord barbours linen and the 25 needle it has problems.

I have oil in the pot and have messed with all the tensions, I have it on a 29 patcher stand with no motor so I can really feel it stick right when the hook catches the loop and tries to pull it up.

It works o.k. On thin leather but on belt leather it keeps breaking and missing stitches etc.

Any ideas?

Thanks,

Courtney

[CowboyBob]

Did you wrap the thread around the 2nd tension(on the side) 1 & 1/2 times?

[Wizcrafts]

The #25 needle is best used with 4 cord, not 3 cord linen. Go down a size.

Shorten the stroke of the check spring and reduce its spring tension a bit.

Remove the throat plate and watch the loop as it forms and the hook approaches it. This can reveal a lot about timing problems and needle height.

[courtney]

I wrapped it 1 1/2 times around the front face plate roller tension but not the top one. I looked at it cycle and it seems to stick right when the hook catches the loop and the needle pulls it up. I can feel it when I turn the fly wheel be hand, it's not that much on thin stuff but on the thicker it is real sticky right then and starts clanking when I 'm sewing

[Wizcrafts]

Try retarding the hook slightly, so it picks off the loop closer to the eye of the needle, as it ascends.

[courtney]

How would I do that?

[CowboyBob]

Is your foot lifting wth the needle & leather as the needle is pulling out of the leather? Or do you hear a squeaking noise?If so tighten the foot pressure more to hold the leather down.

Edited June 3, 2013 by CowboyBob

[courtney]

No, the foot pressure seems fine,

I guess by retarding the hook that would mean moving the needle bar?

It seems like since it works fine with the thin thread, it wouldnt be a timing problem? Not that I would know. I did just bring it home from a sewing machine mechanic but it would not be easy to get it back to them.

It almost seems like the hole is not big enough to pull the thread through, but that cant be with a 25 needle and 3 cord thread.

it is right when the hook catches the loop it just gets kind of stuck, but it only does it with the thread, there is no resistance or burrs without thread.

[CowboyBob]

It wil get tight when the hook grabs the thread,do you know you need to hold on to it(the needle thread) for the first 3 stitches.Then it will hold it's self atfer that,as you sew heavier & thicker you might need more tension.If you have any try some nylon like # 207 or 277 & see what happens.

[courtney]

Yes, I have been holding the stitches. I dont have any nylon but I bet it would work better. I'm wondering if the hook on the shuttle is pointy enough? I dont know if that would change anything since it is picking it up?

Also the needle is not tottally centered in the throat plate.

I messed with the needle bar timing it seems like it works better when the hole is alittle below the hook.

Which way is the thread supposed to come off the bobbin?

[courtney]

Well, I got some nylon 277 and it seems to be working!!!! Thanks for the help Wiz and Bob! I spent way too long suffering trying to make the linen go through, But I got more familiar with my obsolete machine.

I know parts are super scarce for these but I wonder how important the right parts really are?

Obviously they have to fit, but wouldnt any heavy check spring and tension discs/springs be o.k.? The sewing mechanic that had my machine was talking about grams of the spring and stuff.

What are the parts of a sewing machine that usually need to be replaced at some time?

[Anne Bonnys Locker]

This machine is not obsolete my friend! The GA5-1 is nothing but a 45k21 (the 45k25 fitted with a standard foot) so they are still one of the most widely used machines on the planet for harness leather.

The problem could be that the shuttle hook is not close enough to the scarf of the needle. A stiff thread like bonded nylon tends to be more forgiving in this case.

This could be due to wear in the hook or wear between the shuttle driver and body of the machine. In the latter case I have only been able to repair it with a piece of shim but others may have a better solution.

Well, I got some nylon 277 and it seems to be working!!!! Thanks for the help Wiz and Bob! I spent way too long suffering trying to make the linen go through, But I got more familiar with my obsolete machine.

I know parts are super scarce for these but I wonder how important the right parts really are?

Obviously they have to fit, but wouldnt any heavy check spring and tension discs/springs be o.k.? The sewing mechanic that had my machine was talking about grams of the spring and stuff.

What are the parts of a sewing machine that usually need to be replaced at some time?

[courtney]

Thanks Anne Bonny's locker, I'm really excited to have this machine! I am just freaked out because it seems like parts are so hard to come by.

It seems like the take up spring would wear or break after awhile? Could I use a techsew spring?

What other parts would you guess would wear or break?

Do the ga5-1 parts fit? I looked at their website and the throat and feed dogs look the same I think, but they said sold out and I think that model is fasted out or upgraded or something.

The shuttle hook looks a little flat from the front, it does come to a point if your looking from the back.

Should it look like a needle sharp tip from the front? My 31-20 looks that way.

The eye of the needle is way below the point of the hook when you look at when they meet, but I tried adjusting it back and forth and this is where it seems best.

The linen just felt rough and bumpy in the machine, it took so much effort to treadle it through 10 oz. you could almost hear it, and then it would break.

[courtney]

here are some pictures of my hook, is this what its supposed to look like?

Also, is this my retaining ring in the machine or am I missing it?

Seems to be working since I put the nylon in.

Courtney

[Anne Bonnys Locker]

I would be pulling that bottom end apart and cleaning it out with a toothbrush and kero.

The hook surface looks a bit rough in the pic so may need a touch up with 4000 grit wet and dry.

Modern threads are much more forgiving than Linen and sometimes minor issues are magnified when using a natural thread so look at the condition of the needle plate hole.

here are some pictures of my hook, is this what its supposed to look like?

Also, is this my retaining ring in the machine or am I missing it?

Seems to be working since I put the nylon in.

Courtney

[courtney]

Thanks Anne Bonny's locker, is that my retaining ring in the pic? I hope so otherwise I'm missing it.

So, the hook looks o.k. To you at the tip?

What do you think about the ga5 parts fitting?

Are there certain parts that you think tend to wear out? I cant see me breaking a needle plate but it came with one so I don't know,

Thanks,

Courtney

[Anne Bonnys Locker]

Courtney,

A small number of parts do fit. I believe the needle plate, feed dogs, shuttle and tension assembly are identical and as they are the only parts that ever really wear then you are ok. At some stage I will be looking at the GA5 parts so I can make anything not quite right. I have original needle plates and feed dogs in stock.

Thanks Anne Bonny's locker, is that my retaining ring in the pic? I hope so otherwise I'm missing it.

So, the hook looks o.k. To you at the tip?

What do you think about the ga5 parts fitting?

Are there certain parts that you think tend to wear out? I cant see me breaking a needle plate but it came with one so I don't know,

Thanks,

Courtney

[CowboyBob]

To make the needle plate work,the back hole in the plate needs to be drilled,the shuttles don't interchange either,the bobbins are the same,the feed parts interchange.The feed dog will work as long as you have the correct one as it may have been changed over the years(they must of had over 50 different combos for these 45K's)

[Anne Bonnys Locker]

Bob,

I thought the Chinese DD1 shuttle was the same? I have used them in a 45k with no problem.

To make the needle plate work,the back hole in the plate needs to be drilled,the shuttles don't interchange either,the bobbins are the same,the feed parts interchange.The feed dog will work as long as you have the correct one as it may have been changed over the years(they must of had over 50 different combos for these 45K's)

[courtney]

Thank you guys! thats helpful.

Is that my retaining ring in the pic though?

Courtney

[Trox]

The shuttle you can use are made by Japanese Hirose, Italian Cereliani and in by the Chinese. As Darren said you can use the DD1 closed type or the open type DD1 OP2 (same type as you have). https://www.college-sewing.co.uk/Singer45KSewingMachineParts

I do not know if its necessary to change yours, its hard to tell by the picture.

One thing, what kind of oil are you using in your lube pot? Regular oil will make your thread stick to the metal and it will not make thread loops. I hope you have tried it without oil?, its maybe a stupid question. Nevertheless, I have tried regular leather oil and it did not work, my machine skipped stitches all the time because the thread sticked to the metal.

Tor

[Wizcrafts]

Try using liquid silicon lube, which is sold in quart bottles by most industrial sewing machine dealers.

Edited June 13, 2013 by Wizcrafts

[courtney]

Thanks Trox and Wiz,

Actually I did not try it without oil! I have white sewing oil in the pot.

I wonder?? but, it seems to be fine now that I put the nylon in so I'm not freaking out that much anymore, but I might give it a shot dry.

[pcox]

Oil is not thread lube. The best I have found is from Puritan, Ceroxylon wax. Lubes the thread great then dries &sets and seals the stitches.I first thought $65 a gallon was high but after useing it worth it to me. don't gum things up.

[Trox]

Thanks Trox and Wiz,

Actually I did not try it without oil! I have white sewing oil in the pot.

I wonder?? but, it seems to be fine now that I put the nylon in so I'm not freaking out that much anymore, but I might give it a shot dry.

You cannot use Oil.

No wonder it will not sew if you use white sewing machine oil, the thread will stick to the metal and be unable to form a loop; the result is skipping stitches. You must use thread lube like PCOX told you above, thats not oil.

On polyester and bonded nylon you can use silicone thread lube too cool the needle.

These old machine was built when most used linen thread and it is the best thing you can feed them. Does it use the 328 needle system or a similar Singer system, I believe they use a shorter needle than the 441 machines do (794); they do not create that much heat. Thread lube might not be necessary with polyester, you can also use prelubed thread.

You must also remember that sewing machine thread is fresh ware, you cannot take any old thread and expect it to work well. It dries out and becomes full of dust particles when it is stored unprotected. You can spray old thread cones with Fibings liquid glycerin saddle soap, it will restore some of its moister.

Good luck

Tor