Pablo27 Report post Posted June 18, 2013 I apologize ahead of time for another thread question but I have been reading continously for 3 days and can't find the answers I am seeking and need some advice. I even called Campbell-Randall and they couldn't answer my question. I can't find out what the difference between #6, or #5 and 18/3 or 18/4 and what size is 207? Then there are all the needle sizes. one place a size is 00 and someplace else it is a different #??? I bought some Barbour #6 ($50 worth) and then ordered some John James #2 needles but don't think the two are compatible?? So if there is a chart or someone could point me to the right post, my sanity would be forever grateful. I love these forums and Nigel's video's but I'm over educated for my intelligence and need some advice. Thank you so so much in advance. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveh Report post Posted June 19, 2013 your linen thread sizes are referenced by (cord ) 6 being the heavier 3 being the lighter. 5 and 6 cord for harness and saddler, 3and 4 cord for purses wallets ect. As far as needles go depends on the manufacturer, I believe Osborne 000 are the heaviest, where as 0 and 1 are smaller. John James needles, I use 004 which is there smallest harness needle and I use 5 and 6 cord with this needle, I Like the smaller needle as I can pull thru the awl holes easier. I taper and wax the thread and I am able to thread the eye, I do not back weave thread thru it self as most do. You may want to try this with your number 2 john james. The 207 is a thread size reference for machine thread poly, nylon,ect. Machine threads go from the smallest 46,69 99,138,207,277,346,415, the largest. 207 is an med size used for belts and light weight tack. you can sew by hand with if you like but it is not as nice as linen. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pablo27 Report post Posted June 19, 2013 Thanks for the reply, and helping me understand what the differences are. One question though, how far back do you taper the thread to get a good solid thread ? Also what type of wax are you using, straight beeswax or some mix? I went to the John James website and didn't see an 004 size needle, can you clarify the size for me. Thanks again for your time and help, I really appreciate it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveh Report post Posted June 20, 2013 I have the John James harness needles which are blunt point, I questioned the sizing my self so I emailed them, They said the 1,2 3.and 4 are all the same size , she told me it had to do with international sales. The 1 thru 4 are the smallest needles, the size is list (mm) on there site. This is the needle I use, my package says 004 but it is a 4. I must tell you it is small and I taper the thread about 3inches back from the end, I wax with beeswax and some rosin melted in like 70/30 ratio not real exact but it makes a harder wax.I run the taper thru the eye and pull about 6 thru , that is it, I do not back the needle thru thread on this small of needle. I like this small needle as I can sew easier thru awl hole with out constriction. The other john james needles are as follows smaller to larger 18(1/0), 17(2/0), 16(3/0). 1/0 is a nice size if you find the others to small to your liking. Hope this helps clarify, there needle sizing is not real clear. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hornm Report post Posted June 20, 2013 I found this link useful http://www.thethreadexchange.com/miva/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=TTE&Category_Code=nylon-thread-information As for the needle sizes....not much help. Luckily Oregon Leather has a box they handed me with all the different needles (Osborne) taped to the side with the sizes so I could at least take a better stab at what I was buying (got the 000) Michael Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pablo27 Report post Posted June 20, 2013 Thank you all for you prompt and informative answers, and thank you steveh for taking all the extra time to email John James and come up with an answer to my questions. I feel so fortunate to belong to a site that so freely shares their knowledge and helps new comers and experienced leatherworkers alike. Pablo27 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pablo27 Report post Posted July 1, 2013 Here is a link to John James online, it appears that sizes 1-3 are the same but #4 is somewhat smaller.. Was sorting thru some needles I had and trying to identify which I had and found this page. Hope it helps someone else. Thank you all again for your time and guidance. http://www.jjneedles.com/products/Envelope-Saddlers%27-Harness-Needles.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tomruff52 Report post Posted March 14, 2016 Updated link for John James Needle Guide: https://www.jjneedles.com/downloads/JJ-Needles-Types-and-Sizes-Guide.pdf Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Martyn Report post Posted March 14, 2016 (edited) Updated link for John James Needle Guide: https://www.jjneedles.com/downloads/JJ-Needles-Types-and-Sizes-Guide.pdf That guide doesn't appear to show the 'saddlers harness needles', which is the only ones I have (code L3912 size 2 or size 002). Here's the link to the JJ page: https://www.jjneedles.com/buy-needles/envelopes/saddlers-harness-needles-1.html#size-guide Size 1 55mm length x 1.02mm diameter Size 2 55mm length x 1.02mm diameter Size 3 55mm length x 1.02mm diameter Size 4 50mm length x 0.86mm diameter Size 18 (1/0) 57mm length x 1.09mm diameter Size 17 (2/0) 60mm length x 1.42mm diameter Size 16 (3/0) 62mm length x 1.63mm diameter According to that, it would appear that size 1, 2 and 3 are all the same. I ordered a pack of 25 a few weeks ago and recieved an envelope with size 3 written on it. I thought they had sent me the wrong needles, till I found out I couldn't tell the difference between those and size 2's. I also have an envelope with 002 written on it, this also seems to be the same size. However size 0/2 is different, it's actually a size 17. They dont make it easy for us do they? To be clear, These (55mm x 1.02mm)... are the same as these (55mm x 1.02mm)... but are NOT the same as these (these are size 17 62mm x 1.63mm)... Confused? :D Edited March 14, 2016 by Martyn Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tomruff52 Report post Posted March 14, 2016 Thanks for the needling, Martyn! I wonder if they are grading them for something other than size. Perhaps for flexibility/hardness of the wire used? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Martyn Report post Posted March 14, 2016 (edited) Thanks for the needling, Martyn! I wonder if they are grading them for something other than size. Perhaps for flexibility/hardness of the wire used? I think it's just for international trade. I think some countries expect a #3 or a #1 to be a certain size, so they just package the same needles differently, just for domestic market relevance in a target country. If that's the case, I think they've dropped the ball. What they don't realise is that markets are becoming increasingly globalised. What would help is global standardisation, not relabelling the same thing in a dozed different ways. On that subject, you guys in the US really need to hurry along and drop feet and inches. It's a blimmin nightmare for the rest of us who've been metric for the last 4 decades. The English system sucks ...and I'm allowed to say that because I'm English ...and old enough to have grown up with it. :D Edited March 14, 2016 by Martyn Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Martyn Report post Posted March 14, 2016 ...However size 0/2 is different, it's actually a size 17... I meant to say 2/0, not 0/2. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scoutmaster Report post Posted August 19, 2016 I believe the 1/0, 2/0, and 3/0 is shorthand for 0, 00, and 000. So the needles are like gauges of wire (or shotgun shells) - they go from the smallest (4 or 004) to largest (3/0 or 000). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scoutmaster Report post Posted August 21, 2016 I found this useful regarding the JJ needles and common threads: Size 4 (004)- Smallest Needles (length 48 mm/Outer diameter 0.9 mm ) • Lin Cable - Pairs with 532, 632, 832 • Tiger Thread - Pairs with 0.6mm Size 2 (002) needle • Lin Cable: Pairs with 332 & 432 • Tiger Thread: Pairs with 0.8mm Size 0 (1/0) needle • Lin Cable: Pairs with 332 • Tiger Thread: Pairs with 1.0 mm Size 00 (also known as 2/0) needle •Pairs with thread 1.0mm to 1.2mm Size 000 (3/0) needle •Pairs with thread > 1.2mm Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
