I Need To Know A Few Very Important Things To Get Started...

[Peppercorn]

I'm literally so new, I'm not wet behind the ears, I'm still pink. 8-)

I will be 45 soon and I really cannot believe that I have finally decided to do this. From time to time, I have repaired certain things like wallets when they started to unravel, etc., but I am basically unskilled at this. Except to say that my repairs have lasted for a long time. Might not be the prettiest, but they have lasted!

My specific area of interest is wallets and wallet-like small pouches that are (heavy-duty) velcro closure and snap closure items.

I have no delusions about this stuff. I know I am nowhere near being able to do zippered cases, so I'm not even ready to soak in that information. I do need to know about snaps and the snap set tools to set them, etc.

What I do need to know about is, saddle-stitching. Do I use an Overstitch Wheel after using a Stitching Groover or do I simply use a Lacing Chisel after making the groove? Do I need to use Compass Dividers or will the Groover work just as well? Are Lacing Chisels the same as a Pricking Iron? If not, what is the difference?

This looks to be about the kind of leather I would like to use on some projects, would anyone have a source for the tools and the type of leather you see in this YouTube Video?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neQa0vm_zOc

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[Wyeman]

Peppercorn,

Have a look at the following link and it should answer a lot of your sewing questions. In relation to the obtaining of materials and equipment we need to know whereabouts in this great World you are.

http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=44874

[Peppercorn]

Oh, that would help, wouldn't it!

I'm on The East Coast of The States. That leather in Ian Atkinson's video, I think, is going to be incredible for some of what I want to do. I am having problems trying to equate millimeters into the ounces system we have here. I'm usually a Dirty Colonial when it comes to American stuff but I must say, measuring leather by thickness instead of weight is probably going to be a lot better for me...

Also, I have been studying Mr. Armitage's videos on YouTube as well. He has stated that there are differences in needle nomenclature between our two countries as well. So, any help with that would be awesome.

I shall read what you posted...and a whole lot more... Thank you.

[electrathon]

1 ounce = 1/64" So 6 ounce = 6/64" or 3/32" There is no area of leatherwork where you will get more controversy than hand sewing. Lots of ways to do it, many are correct, some are not.

[Glendon]

I've tried all of the common stitching methods, and I'll see if I can give you a little comparison.

What I do need to know about is, saddle-stitching.

The best way to learn about saddle stitching is in the older books. "The Art of Hand Sewing Leather" by Al Stohlmen is the one I found the most helpful.

Do I use an Overstitch Wheel after using a Stitching Groover or do I simply use a Lacing Chisel after making the groove?

This is one of the big choices you need to make for yourself, Chisel or overstich and awl. A starter hand stitching set and a set of 3/32" lacing chisels are not that much. I have recently switched to lacing chisels from an awl, and I personally like the chisels. It's easier and I kind of like the look. Some people will tell you that you are comparamising the strength of your stitch that way, and they are right to a point, However, its not that big of a diffrence in most cases.

Do I need to use Compass Dividers or will the Groover work just as well?

This is two ways to do the same thing really. A grover will remove a small amount of leather, while wing dividers are usually just making an impression in the leather. Though either gets the same job done. It gives you a guide line to follow. Play with it and see what looks or works better for you. I think the govers are easier to use myself.

Are Lacing Chisels the same as a Pricking Iron? If not, what is the difference?

I don't use pricking irons, but my understanding is that they do the same job as an overstich wheel. They give you guide points for an awl.

[Ferg]

Peppercorrn

I believe the leather you show in the photo is Kangaroo. Definitely some of the best leather I have ever used.

ferg

Edited July 28, 2013 by 50 years leather

[Peppercorn]

To answer multiple quotes of information.

First, thanks to all of you, very much so.

1 ounce = 1/64"

So 6 ounce = 6/64" or 3/32"

Thank you. Are there any other potential pitfalls in the way we measure leather versus everyone else in mils?

There is no area of leatherwork where you will get more controversy than hand sewing. Lots of ways to do it, many are correct, some are not.

In your experience, what are the incorrect ways of doing it? Not necessarily the lesser of the correct ways, but the things to absolutely avoid.

I don't use pricking irons, but my understanding is that they do the same job as an overstich wheel. They give you guide points for an awl.

Thanks for all of the information. There wasn't really any use wasting space quoting it all again.

That having been said, both of the Gents on YouTube use the chisels with Nigel Armitage using them as you suggest, as an Overstitch Wheel and with Ian Atkinson driving the chisel to drive all the way through, taking the place of a awl or punch and making the holes with the chisel.

Are both ways okay and just a matter of style and personal preference?

Thanks again to everyone and anyone else that wants to kick in more info, that's great, too.

Snaps and the tools to set them and hole punchers are going to be a must-have set of tools/skills/supplies as well.

Peppercorrn

I believe the leather you show in the photo is Kangaroo. Definitely some of the best leather I have ever used.

ferg

Ferg,

For the Four Card Wallet that Ian Atkinson made?

What would you suppose the thickness/weight of that leather would be?

Besides simply "Kangaroo," what would that type of leather, finish and everything, be referred to?

Eventually I would like to get into dyeing and more complicated things like incorporating high-quality zippers like YKK Zippers, etc.

[Ferg]

Yes.

Kangaroo is obviously from "Roos", is very nice and luxurious to the touch and eye. It is chrome tanned, dyed at the tannery, and averages 1.5oz. to 2oz.

That makes it a shade less than 1/32" in thickness.

I have made a number of change purses/wallets and lined belts and shoulder straps with the Kangaroo. You can get it in a number of colors. I tend to stay with brown or black, using the colors for ladies articles. Not a cheap leather. Skins are small, seldom exceeding 6 square feet.

Baby American Bison/Buffalo skins are fabulous leathers also. The feel, texture, and wearability is similar to Kangaroo. Slightly heavier than the "Roo".

ferg

[electrathon]

The most worst way to try to hand sew is to get one of the automatic sewing awls that have a bobbin built in. It is sort of a manual sewing machine. Do not waste your money.

[Glendon]

As far as the chisel vs awl debate goes, it's all a matter of style. As I said, some do say the chisel makes for a weaker stitch. That being said, I now do it the same way Ian does, skipping the awl all together. Seems to work just fine.

[Peppercorn]

Kangaroo is obviously from "Roos", is very nice and luxurious to the touch and eye. It is chrome tanned, dyed at the tannery, and averages 1.5oz. to 2oz.

That makes it a shade less than 1/32" in thickness.

I have made a number of change purses/wallets and lined belts and shoulder straps with the Kangaroo.

ferg

Ferg,

For being that thin, do you rate Kangaroo Leather as being incredibly tough?

If you wanted to make a little pocket case for slipping a pocketknife into, would the chrome tanning discolor the knife?

The most worst way to try to hand sew is to get one of the automatic sewing awls that have a bobbin built in. It is sort of a manual sewing machine. Do not waste your money.

Thank you. They do look like an overcomplication for that whole process.

As far as the chisel vs awl debate goes, it's all a matter of style. As I said, some do say the chisel makes for a weaker stitch. That being said, I now do it the same way Ian does, skipping the awl all together.

I reckon I will end up with a couple of awls anyway, I use them now and I don't even do this stuff! But I understand what you are talking about.

[Ferg]

Peppercorn

The Kangaroo is incredibly tough. I have made a couple dozen cases for Nail Clippers from this leather. I carry one myself. It becomes the shape of the tool inside it without molding. I find no discoloration on any thing I have made a case for from the Kangaroo.

ferg

[Peppercorn]

Ferg,

That's excellent news! It looks so buttery in that video.

[WyomingSlick]

The most worst way to try to hand sew is to get one of the automatic sewing awls that have a bobbin built in. It is sort of a manual sewing machine. Do not waste your money.

LOL He, and others just say that because they haven't mastered the tool. No, it isn't as fast as a sewing machine, but it produces the same stitch, and it's a lot easier to carry in a saddle bag on that pack trip than a sewing machine. Plus, it's usually hard to find a currant bush to run a machine ! LOL

AND, it's a lot simpler and quicker than fussing with needles, waxing, tapering thread ends, etc. in order to handsew a repair. True, not as strong...but it will do the job.

[Peppercorn]

If it stitches like a sewing machine, that means that two different threads meet in the multiple layers of leather and the two loops entwine once and that's it. That's all right for emergency repairs in the field I reckon, but on something that is handmade that I want to last for as long as possible, I would not be interested in that when you compare it to the Saddle Stitch.

[electrathon]

LOL He, and others just say that because they haven't mastered the tool. No, it isn't as fast as a sewing machine, but it produces the same stitch, and it's a lot easier to carry in a saddle bag on that pack trip than a sewing machine. Plus, it's usually hard to find a currant bush to run a machine ! LOL

AND, it's a lot simpler and quicker than fussing with needles, waxing, tapering thread ends, etc. in order to handsew a repair. True, not as strong...but it will do the job.

See, told you. No matter what form of hand sewing you use there is always controversy.

Aaron

[Peppercorn]

When I see how the Saddle Stitch is done and understand how the sewing machine and similar devices do a stitch, just my opinion, the Saddle Stitch is what you would want for construction. For repairs? As far as I'm concerned, we can then embrace the whole Russian proverb of, "The best is the enemy of good enough." I can't rightly remember it ver batim. 8-)

But I don't think it is "good enough" for the original construction of a piece. As a matter of fact, for hard use items, it would seem that you would be guaranteeing that you will have to be making a repair in the field in the future by not using a hardier stitch.

[Dangerous Beans]

I'm curious... The absurdity of the automatic stitch thing aside... How many of you have had to actually undertake an emergency repair in the field? Of something made of leather?

I have been designing and making all manor of leather thingumywhatsits for a few years now... All carry a lifetime guarantee. I've yet to have a customer return something they have broken, torn or have had a seam fail on them.

And as for the comment that those who decry the auto awl are those that have failed to master it. I'm sorry but what tosh.

I'm not a negative person, I can find positive in most anything, but really... The auto awl?

Do it right! Do it once!

Rant done, sorry!

Nige

[remgogh]

Try to get your hands on some Cromexcel leather from Horween, might bee a little thicker than you are thinking but it makes great wallets. Average weight is 4oz. I not very experiences but where I'm from there is minimal choice in leather especially roo,

[A and T Leather]

The most worst way to try to hand sew is to get one of the automatic sewing awls that have a bobbin built in. It is sort of a manual sewing machine. Do not waste your money.

I agree 100% except when it is the only way to sew a item I make a butt cover for guns that I use it to sew because I cant get my big hands down inside to saddle stitch it so I use a auto awl and a long pair of needle nose pliers but I found if you use 346 and wax it yourself You can keep it tight and it looks good Just thought I would add my two cents LOL