"unfinished" Leather

[AdrianS]

Hi folks, how's it going?

I've got two questions about "untreated" veg tan, as I want to try making something with a little feature with the natural tan look. I know you guys mostly dye and treat, but I'm hoping someone can answer my qusetions.

See image for what I mean about the natural tan look (no comments about the quality, please).

Question 1: These types of leathers are usually made for tooling, which also means they're very easily damaged when left intreated. Is there something that I can do or apply to protect the leather whilst retaining the look and feel? Does mink oil really work?

Question 2: The leather I received from W&C was a little disappointing and has quite a lot of light blemishes like markings. Is there any way to remove or minimise these to get a more consistent surface like the leather in the image above?

In a video I found, a pretty inconsistent piece of leather seems to be made more consistent by brushing it? Would this work with the leather above?

Before:

Brushing:

Final product:

Video link: www.youtube.com/embed/Kg8QWVgtUzc

As always, any input would be really appreciated!

- Adrian

[Wishful]

Not sure if this is what you are looking for but there is a technique called glazing that smooths out the leather. Here is a link describing it http://en.m.wikipedi...Glazing_machine tandy sells a piece of glass to do this

Edited October 30, 2013 by Wishful

[cgleathercraft]

I wet formed a large case for my mag light. I left it the natural color and put several coats of neatsfoot oil on it. After I gave it plenty of time to penetrate i threw it in the back of my car and its been rolling around in there for quite a while. Its a little darker than what is in your picture but it has the natural feel to it. Haven't tried mink oil on anything other than my work boots before I got into leatherworking, but I imagine it would work.

[Matt S]

In the brushing video it appears the craftsman is using "English bridle" leather. This is a veg tan which has been dyed and then treated by "hot stuffing", the addition of fats, oils and waxes while warm. When it comes from the currier (craftsman who finishes leather) it has "spew" on the surface, excess treatment which is sitting on the surface. It appears to be this which he is brushing off.

[Cyberthrasher]

just put a LIGHT coat of your favorite finish on it and send it out. Lately I've been using RTC Sheridan Resist for pocket items. That will protect it, leave a very mild satin glow, and still allow you to apply a conditioner such as Montana Pitch Blend over the top.

[AdrianS]

Thanks for the replies guys. The bridle "spew" is very interesting and also confirms that brushing my leather wouldn't do any good.

Glazing seems to make the surface glossy, where I prefer a matte finish.

I might give neatsfoot and mink oil a shot, thanks.

I've taken a picture of the type of markings I was talking about. There are heaps of these which I have to work around, quite disappointing for a very expensive leather, especially as these look like damage incurred at the tannery rather than natural scars and because they're scattered all over the side, I wouldn't be able to make anything with large pieces - but thankfully that's not a problem for me, yet.

Here are some more photos of other people's products with natural veg tan leather.

And of course, Louis Vuitton famously uses it too and their leather seems to have zero imperfections. Surely they must do something to it.

[Cyberthrasher]

You can slick stuff like that out with a glass burnisher. Those are normal handling scuffs and not really bad marks.

also, the cleanliness of your leather from the tannery will depend on the "grade" you bought.

[chiefjason]

Unless you can send someone to the tannery or wholesaler like Louise does you get stuck with some issues to fix. I have used an oil/wax finish over the leather. Just 50/50 neatsfoot oil and beeswax by weight. It darkens the leather slightly. After you melt them together it congeals into a paste somewhere between Vaseline and shoe polish depending on materials and amount of each. I rub that on the leather then heat it with a heat gun to force it to penetrate.

This holster was neatsfoot oil and 50/50 mop and glo finish. You can see it's slightly darker, but I think that piece of leather was a bit reddish too.

[Andrew Chee]

Hi chief, do you have any problems with inconsistent penetration of the finish when applying with a heat gun? I make my own finish as well but I suspend it in a solvent so it's liquid until it's applied. I'm afraid if I don't do that, the finish would penetrate unevenly when heat is applied and I would get streaks.

Andrew

Unless you can send someone to the tannery or wholesaler like Louise does you get stuck with some issues to fix. I have used an oil/wax finish over the leather. Just 50/50 neatsfoot oil and beeswax by weight. It darkens the leather slightly. After you melt them together it congeals into a paste somewhere between Vaseline and shoe polish depending on materials and amount of each. I rub that on the leather then heat it with a heat gun to force it to penetrate.

This holster was neatsfoot oil and 50/50 mop and glo finish. You can see it's slightly darker, but I think that piece of leather was a bit reddish too.

[chiefjason]

Andrew, no real problems with streaking. I do 2 coats. On my black it comes out even. I do a brown that is splotchy anyway so that would be hard to tell. But nothing that I have noticed. I generally do a final finish of atom wax over it too.

[AdrianS]

You can slick stuff like that out with a glass burnisher. Those are normal handling scuffs and not really bad marks.

also, the cleanliness of your leather from the tannery will depend on the "grade" you bought.

Thanks Cyber,

I'll have a look at glass burnishers. Does it glaze the leather, though? i.e. make is glossy?

I bought 'standard' grade from W&C, which was their most expensive on their price list so I presumed it was their highest grade despite the name. Their 'special' grade was cheaper, from memory.

If I'm not doing any tooling, would anyone advise to treat the leather before working with it? I ask because another problem that I'm having is that during cutting, gluing and stitching, the leather seems to absorb every bit of dirt that gets in contact with it, so by the time I've finished all the hard work, it's covered in specks of dirt that are hard to clean off.

[Cyberthrasher]

Thanks Cyber,

I'll have a look at glass burnishers. Does it glaze the leather, though? i.e. make is glossy?

Depends on how much you work it. But it will smooth out the grain and get rid of a lot of imperfections. You'll want to damped the leather and rub the glass slicker over those spots to work them out and then let it dry. Doing that over the entire surface will give you that smooth appearance you seem to be looking for. Those are perfectly normal tannery marks and nothing to be upset about.

As for dirty leather - first step is to ALWAYS wash your hands before handling the leather. It will suck up the oils in your skin in order to replenish its own. It's usually best to complete all color and finishing prior to assembly as well.

[Macca]

Dunhill/Hermes etc buy the best leather you can find in Europe, even then, there is huge wastage

very little ends up getting used, most is scrapped

http://manufactureandindustry.blogspot.de/2012/03/factory-visit-no-8-dunhill-walthamstow.html

[simontuntelder]

You should perhaps look into currying if you don't like natural imperfections like growth marks and such, which to me is often the most beautiful part of a hide.

Currying is the process of treating vegetable tanned leather in a certain way - like with the British bridle leather, which is a little different from the American bridle or what the Americans call English bridle.

Anyway, you can experiment with a slicker made of glass, steel or wood, which has been shaped/rounded, so it doesn't mark the leather. Then you make your own mix of oils and waxes (from the tanneries I've visited, I can recommend tallow, cod oil, neatsfoot oil and some other), then you saturate the leather and start moving the slicker across the grain, and thereby removing any marks (except for holes or scratches that penetrates the grain).

Or you could just order you English bridle from some of the English makers like Sedgewicks (which Dunhill probably buys from), Clayton or Barker. Or actually not Barker, as their leathers are quite natural still.

[johnv474]

Or, you could just buy latex gloves like mechannics wear while working with that leather. Be aware that undyed veg tan will change color over time with exposure to moisture, oils (ie from contact with hands), and sun. If you try to seal it you may be able to slow down this effect. . .but to me that's the point of using this material. I just use a little extra virgin olive oil earlyon to soften it up a little. This will darken it until the oil dries. I later apply other stuff, but it could be left raw. Since it's tanned, it will be resistant to rotting but will be very water-sensitive unless you treat it. By water-sensitive I mean it will get soggy and pliable.