Help! Black Dye Coming Off After Finish

[FirstNick]

I thought i had it under control, but I am in desperate need of help.

Its a cardholder. I dyed it black (sprite-based dye, 3 coats), let it dry over night, buff it, applied satin sheen (two coats) and buffed it (no dye is coming of).

But, when I buff it with a wet cloth, the dye comes off. I cant have the dye coming off, it will ruing the clothes.

What I am doing wrong? What I am to do? How can I seal this?

I have leather grease, satin sheen and Resolene at my disposal. (I try to avoid resolene due to the shine it gives)

This is my first real commission and I really want it to be perfect, and I am suppose to ship it out tomorrow!

Any help is deeply appreciated!

/Nicklas

[Cyberthrasher]

Satin sheen is water based. When you buff it with a wet cloth, you're removing the finish and getting at the dye.

I recommend the Resolene. It's water based, but it's acrylic and WILL NOT reactivate with water. It's so shiny for you because you're probably not cutting it 50/50 with water. They fail to put that on the bottle, but you should ALWAYS cut it 50/50 and apply in multiple light coats.

[FirstNick]

Cyberthrasher, once again, thank you!

How many coats? And how long should I let it dry between the coats?

How do you apply it? With a wet sponge?

[Cyberthrasher]

usually 3 - 4 light coats depending on the intended purpose. I'll use more if I'm going to antique. For a card holder 3 should be plenty. I keep a pre-mixed bottle of 50/50 on hand, then put a little bit in a small jar to use for black items since there's always going to be a little bit of transfer onto your applicator that may get mixed in when you reload.

Let dry for at least 2 hours between coats.

Apply with either an airbrush or a sponge that's MOIST - no water dripping out at all when you squeeze it. Use really light pressure and avoid bubbles. If you do get bubbles, be sure to work them out.

I'll add that on my card holders and other small items, I can usually get by with a blue shop paper towel instead of a sponge. They don't hold very much fluid, which makes for a really nice light application with ease. But, for larger items, it makes you end up having to reload more and work the same area too much causing more issues. Something to practice with though.

Both of these card wallets were covered with Resolene using that method, as were the trading cards below that.

http://hellhoundkust....com/whats-new/

Edited November 13, 2013 by Cyberthrasher

[FirstNick]

Lovely!

Usually I glue the pieces together, stitch them and the apply the finish coats. But the black dye gets on the thread and colors it.

So now, I have removed the stitches and applied the resolene as you told me to (I can already see the big difference now !), but my treatment it breaking the glue (because I want the resolene inside the cardholder)

What method would you recommend I should do on the next similar project? Dye -> glue -> stitch -> resolene? I am wondering if I will experience the same problem with the discoloring of the thread as before, with the new approach you learned me.

And, should I finish the inside with resolene as well?

[Cyberthrasher]

What method would you recommend I should do on the next similar project? Dye -> glue -> stitch -> resolene?

Basically, I usually Dye, finish then stitch. BUT, the big difference is I don't glue wallets. Takes too much time to get a clean line that won't extend into the card area, at least when you consider that it's really only a temporary hold until you get the thread in there. Instead, I use seam tape. Sticky as hell and holds the edge together until I get it stitched up.

If I'm dying the inside, I do apply resolene there as well. At least one or two light coats. It won't be subjected to the same wear as the outside of the wallet, just the friction from cards being pulled out. However, I also don't want to risk any kind of sweat or moisture getting in there and making dye bleed onto somebody's cards.

Now, black thread on the other hand. I stitch that up first and dye everything afterward. With white thread, it's usually best to just finish anything you're doing with color before you start stitching. I had one once that was black with white thread. Once I was done, I noticed a few spots on my edge that were a little lighter than I'd like. So I went to put more dye on but got a little overzealous in a couple of spots and had some bleed onto my thread. Had to pull it all and restitch it up.

Also, you didn't mention if you were dying before stitching with white thread. Sounds like maybe you are and that's where you're having an issue. I wouldn't think there would be enough dye pigment left on the surface of the leather to discolor the thread that much as it's going through the holes. You might try buffing a little more, especially around the stitching line.

[Hennessy]

i've told this procedure several times and never had any one come back with a grateful thank you !kinda makes me think,they think i'm pullin their leg.] believe me this works every time !.wash [acid] your finished work,then a good coat of lacquer or a acrylic shine then apply yer black oil or alc base dye onto work /// no residue at all.i've done this with all colors in oil dye but black allways cursed me ''no more '' get a piece of scrap leather n see fer yerself it works and it made my life better eh !

[Sylvia]

Black is the bane of many people's existence. I gave up on Fiebings and Angelus dyes and only use Vinegaroon with a black antique paste over it... then seal the crap out of it with Resolene 50/50 like Cyber says... but I allow it to dry for a minimum of 4-5 hours between coats... then I don't buff until it's been sitting at least 24 hours... I dry buff no moisture. I also agree with Hennessy, about cleaning the leather first... especially if you have exceptionally oily skin.

Keep in mind the humidity where you are located will have a big affect on how the dye will dry. It's really dry in Idaho where Cyber and I are... so we can get away with shorter dry times.

[adams484]

I make holsters and use Tandy's water based dye. I often dye the holster first then wet mold it. The waxes in the dye seem to do a very good job of stopping bleed even when wet molding.

But back to your problem. It will probably stop bleeding when all the spirit based solvents leach out in a couple of months. Not what you wanted to hear? Well if it were me and it has been me in the same fix, I would just use acetone to remove the oil based dye and re-dye it with Tandy's water based dye. After re-dying put some Lexol or some other good conditioner on it to keep it from drying out too much and cracking. Then seal it and forget it.

Take my word for it a CCW (Concealed Carry Weapon) holster often sets against sweaty skin in Alabama and I have had only problems with Alcohol and Oil based dyes that I just don't have with the Tandy's water based dyes.

Give it a try.

[ramrod]

feibing's oil dye. end of story. never a problem with bleeding off. the stuff is fantastic.

[TomG]

I use the 50/50 resolene and if the surface is flat, I use a scrap of tee shirt folded about 3-4 layers thick. Dab the Resolene and do a light swipe on the newsprint that I keep under my work to take off any excess. Then wipe on the leather lightly.

Like Cyber - multiple coats with at least 2 hours between.

But Fiebings, Black Oil Dye is the way to go. Very little bleed .

[FirstNick]

Thanks for all the great answers! I now use resolene 50/50 and its a great help.

I have heard great things about the feibing's oil dye, but I can't get here in Denmark. But I will try some new waterbased dye my supplier just got.

Again, thanks!

[MonicaJacobson]

I have a similar question to Nick - I was about to make a bag and dye it black, and use aussie leather conditioner to seal it. Is that the worst idea in the whole world? The customer wants it to be "soft", so I'm wary of using resolene, but I don't want any dye bleeding off later.

[DavidL]

from what I read Aussie isn't as much as a sealer as resolene. Resolene seals the dye, as it acts as a top coat creating an invisible barrier. Aussie just moisturizes the leather and gives it a bit of protection.

I have aussie conditioner and would use it on top of atom wax, but I am unsure if it stays ontop of the atom wax or rubs off. The end result is that the leather is very soft. The same could be tried on dyed leather with resolene + aussie (or beeswax with petroleum jelly)

The issue I also have is it takes 10 minutes of constant rubbing to get rid of all that excess dye. Drying the oil dyed leather under a lamp or a heat gun on low could remove the excess dye first then can be rubbed off easier I would think to avoid bleed off.

Edited September 13, 2014 by DavidL

[MonicaJacobson]

Yes... the question is, if resolene seals the leather, would putting aussie on top of that do anything at all? It might just float on top of the resolene and be a pointless addition.

[Jbelknap]

On 11/13/2013 at 2:48 PM, Hennessy said:

i've told this procedure several times and never had any one come back with a grateful thank you !kinda makes me think,they think i'm pullin their leg.] believe me this works every time !.wash [acid] your finished work,then a good coat of lacquer or a acrylic shine then apply yer black oil or alc base dye onto work /// no residue at all.i've done this with all colors in oil dye but black allways cursed me ''no more '' get a piece of scrap leather n see fer yerself it works and it made my life better eh !

Can you go over this with me so I understand it…. 1. You wash the finished item… you say (acid) what do you mean by that? Like acid? Like muratic or sulfuric? 2. You put a good coat of  shine on it either acrylic or lacquer shine. 3.Now you dye your leather. Am I getting that right? I’m confused by the acid 

[Northmount]

16 hours ago, Jbelknap said:

Can you go over this with me so I understand it…. 1. You wash the finished item… you say (acid) what do you mean by that? Like acid? Like muratic or sulfuric? 2. You put a good coat of  shine on it either acrylic or lacquer shine. 3.Now you dye your leather. Am I getting that right? I’m confused by the acid 

You realize this thread is 10 years old?

Moved this thread to Dyes, Antiques, Stains, Glues, Waxes, Finishes and Conditioners.

He is likely using oxalic acid.  Mix about 1 teaspoon to a pint of water.  It's very mild, like the strength of lemon juice.  Dealing with leather here, not soldering metals.