Hard Pulling Thread... Cowboy 4500

[SteelcityK9Cop]

I have a new CB4500 that I am learning with. I have it set up with a #25 needle and 277/277 thread. I have the machine threaded exactly as Bob instructs in his video. When I get done sewing my scrap leather I am returning the take up bar to the upright position and raising the presser foot fully to reduce the tension on the thread so I can remove the "project" easier. The bobbin thread is nice and loose but the upper thread is extremely tight to the degree that I can't pull the project loose to cut the thread. All of the tension seems to be coming from the butterfly tensioner (the one you wind 1.5 times). Any ideas what's going on?

[BondoBobCustomSaddles]

Have you loosened up the screw that holds the tensioner discs against each other? I am not an expert here, but; Ihave a CB4500 and I use it a lot, and that's one to the things that I do to adjust tension on the top thread. When you push the foot down to raise the presser foot up that is supposed to disengage that tensioner. You can also try raising the foot with the lever that permanently holds the foot up. That way you know you have it all the way up. Hope that helps? Bob

[Wizcrafts]

Once in a great while, after loosening the top thread between projects, I find that it gets outside of the bottom disk and wraps tightly around the shaft. Sometimes, if one isn't careful about keeping the top thread taut, it can loop around that post with loose thread between the take-up lever and the spring loaded thread guide below it. This happened to me so many times, with springy black thread, that I learned to pass the thread through the forward side of that guide, rather than the back side. The extra 1/4 - 3/8 inch of space caused by the little center post/screw is usually enough to counteract this anomaly.

Some thread is springier than others and tends to uncoil under the spool, or twist around the upper thread guide in the thread stand. I have even watched this kind of thread form a tight knot on its way to the machine. So, make sure that your thread isn't to blame for the tight top thread situation.

Lastly, if you tighten the tension adjuster nut too far in, it gets harder to separate the upper tension disks with the lifter lever or pedal. The same applies to any sewing machine. The top tension disks must have some room to move to allow the thread to be pulled through them after sewing is done. If the spring is tightened all the way in, there is no more room for the disks to open.

[Red Cent]

Are you reaching up to the take up arm for extra thread or are you pulling the thread with the product?

[Wizcrafts]

Are you reaching up to the take up arm for extra thread or are you pulling the thread with the product?

That shouldn't matter if the top tension is not screwed in too far AND if the bottom tension is not screwed all the way in, or the thread has twisted or jammed along the path.

Edited November 15, 2013 by Wizcrafts

[J Hayes]

Is it possible that the"finger" that spreads the top discs is not actually spreading them? If I remember correctly that finger can be out of place if the end cover is removed and the other end of that finger isn't placed properly when thr cover is replaced. Just a thought. Also I can pull thread with the material with no need to reach up to the tske up lever, step the lifter all the way down no problem.

[SteelcityK9Cop]

Thanks for all the responses! I have not touched any of the tension knobs since I brought it home from Bob's shop..and he had it set up for the same thread and needle...EXCEPT.. bob was running white/white on it and I'm now running black/white. The bobnin is still 3/4 full so I am running it this way until its empty.

I am using at times the lift pedal and the lift lever and have the same issue. I also notice that black thread is crazy...I caught it twice knotting under the thread holder arm. It is not however getting stuck around any if the tension shafts.

I will take a picture of my scrap leather tomorrow.. the leather is dry and squeaky when you sew which shouldn't matter I wouldn't think but the top stitches do seem to be sinking into the leather a bit further than they should. I'm guessing this could be a combination of using a thinner leather and perhaps too much tension on the top thread.

When it does not want to pull out I am pulling the project out by itself with the presser feet in the up position. I can pull the bobbin thread all day but only about three inches of top thread before it really locks up hard.

[Wizcrafts]

Try backing off both the top and bottom tension springs. Also, get another spool of black and run it instead. Black thread is often double-dyed, making it drier and springier than almost any other color.

[Cascabel]

I always pull thread at the take-up arm to remove the project on my CB4500. I had always assumed that was normal operation. I have to do it on my 42-5 also, because there is no provision for automatically releasing the top tension on that machine, so pulling from the take-up arm has become my habit.

As an experiment, I unthreaded it from around the lower tension device on my 4500, and it does indeed release the top tension quite nicely when raising the foot, however the lower tensioner seems to be the culprit., as there is no provision to loosen the tension automatically, so it remains snug, but not unreasonably so. Pulling from the take-up arm is quite smooth , and not at all difficult, and as I said it had become my habit anyhow from using my other machine. Perhaps Wiz can tell us if that would be considered normal or not. Or maybe it is not necessary to go around the lower tensioner one and a half times ? I have not tried experimenting with that, as I am quite happy with how the machine works as-is.

[Red Cent]

Wiz, when I got my Cobra 4, I could not pull thread from the take up arm, much less from the needle. I still have scars trying to get it right. It has become habit to reach up to the take up arm.

Cascabel, I do not wrap the thread around the top disc (just snap it in) and down. I do not go around the lower tension "pulley" but 3/4 and out through the spring. Both tension nuts are loose all the way. Just tight enough to keep them against he spring. Almost zero tension. And I cannot pull the thread with the product. And the C4 sews great.

Couple of pictures.

[Cascabel]

Wiz, when I got my Cobra 4, I could not pull thread from the take up arm, much less from the needle. I still have scars trying to get it right. It has become habit to reach up to the take up arm.

Cascabel, I do not wrap the thread around the top disc (just snap it in) and down. I do not go around the lower tension "pulley" but 3/4 and out through the spring. Both tension nuts are loose all the way. Just tight enough to keep them against he spring. Almost zero tension. And I cannot pull the thread with the product. And the C4 sews great.

Couple of pictures.

Apparently you read my posting wrong....... I only pull it down between the top tension discs, I do NOT wrap it around the top tension discs. I DO wrap it around the bottom tensioner per the instructions.

Edited November 16, 2013 by Cascabel

[Hillbilly tim]

When I bought my cobra class 4, steve told me it was a normal matter of operation to raise the presser foot and then pull the thread at the take up arm only when it is at the top of its travel to allow extra thread and easy product removal.

Bro Tim

[Wizcrafts]

I have my machine (CB4500) and my friend's Cobra C4 set up so we can pull the work out by simply lifting the feet. But, I find it works best when the threads are pulled backwards and down. The only time this doesn't work is when I have had to crank up the top tension tighter than usual. There are even a few instances where I had to also tighten up the bottom roller disk, to get enough pull to bring the knots up. Then, I do have to pull the thread out of the take-up arm manually. But, those are exceptions for me.

I have tried a lot of brands of thread and found that no two are the same any more. Black thread is the most troublesome, both for sewing, coiling up, and pulling out. Some brands of thread unravel too easily (poorly bonded). I have 2 spools of light colored thread that are almost useless because of unraveling.

[Wizcrafts]

Almost forgot...

It is also easier to pull the top thread out through the needle is the needlebar is on the downstroke a bit. This has to do with the angle of the thread as it leaves the last steel loop guide, then goes through the guide on the needle bar. Just jiggling the wheel back and forth, with the feet raised (and work out), helps loosen the thread for removal.

[PappyUSA]

Try backing off both the top and bottom tension springs. Also, get another spool of black and run it instead. Black thread is often double-dyed, making it drier and springier than almost any other color.

I learn something every time I read one your posts!

[SteelcityK9Cop]

Thanks for all the assistance everyone!!! I lowered both tension knobs 1/4 turn and the stitches do not seem to be sinking in as far.... I attached two photos below from some practice scrap i attacked tonight. I over oiled yesterday and some snuck onto my presser foot and onto my scrap apparently.

As for the tight thread.... the tension adjustment helped a good bit... but the biggest help was waiting for the needle to travel about 1/4" back down from the upright position. I also noticed something odd... I get higher presser foot lift from the foot pedal than I do with the presser foot lever. I am going to have to see if using the lever was leaving too much tension on the thread.

TOP THREAD:

BOBBIN THREAD:

[Northmount]

Leave some folded paper towel under the presser foot to pickup excess oil, then wipe the feet and stuff above when you are ready to start sewing next time.

Tom