Oil Based Dye And Neatsfoot Oil Question

[vaalpens]

Everybody must be getting tired of all my questions, but at the moment I am a bit stumped regarding how to use an oil based dye.

I have basically been using one of three dye/coloring methods on my sheaths and holsters. My preferred method is to just use neatsfoot oil and a bit of time in the sun until I get the correct color. It looks natural and improves with age. Another method is to use the Fiebing regular dye. Since I work with vegetable tan, research showed I need to put some oil back into the leather, so I put some neatsfoot on the piece after the dye. This darkens the color a little bit, but not that much. Still acceptable and I have a good idea what the end color will be. Now since I have been doing leather work for a few months I decided to start using the Fiebings oil based dye, since it sounds like the more professional dye to use. So I bought the saddle tan and applied it to one of my pieces. The color came out great, very close to the color of using just neatsfoot oil, but with maybe a darker tint towards the ends of the leather. All so good this far. The next step that I always do after the dye dried, is to apply some neatsfoot oil. This is where it all went wrong. The color didn't just darken a bit like when applied after the alcohol based dye, it darken to a point where it was nearly a dark brown.

So my question is; should I even apply neatsfoot oil after using an oil based dye, or is it not necessary. If I still need to apply some neatsfoot oil after dying with an oil based dye, when do you apply it so that it does not darken as much, but more in a controlled manner.

As always, all comments or suggestions will be highly appreciated.

[Matt S]

How long did you allow for drying? 24 hours is not unreasonable. Also, bear in mind that Fiebings dyes are like fruit juice: they need to be diluted to taste with alcohol. For saddle tan I go about 50-50.

Incidentely, Fiebings Pro "Oil" dye is not oil based, it just uses a different mix of solvents than their regular spirit dyes.

[Dwight]

Truthfully, . . . the jury is still out on whether an addition of neatsfoot oil is needed after making something of veggie tanned leather: by cutting, forming, sewing, and dying the project.

Some do, . . . some don't, . . . some do some times. Personally, I'm wearing a double layer belt that I have worn now for right at 5 years. It has never seen neatsfoot oil, . . . was dyed with Feibings British tan diluted 50/50 with solvent and finished in Resolene.

It's been worn to cut the grass, dig post holes, put down roof shingles, preach the gospel of Jesus Christ, bake pies, and a host of other things we do in our lives.

It is not cracked, dried out, or falling apart, . . . and is still quite firm though supple as a proper belt should be.

The addition of neatsfoot oil is in my opinion over rated by those selling it, . . . and mostly over done by those using it. Lobo is a contributor here, . . . and his technique is the only one I use, . . . when I use it at all, . . . which is a quick once over on the hair side only, . . . after dying and before final finishing.

May God bless,

Dwight

[katsass]

Basically what Dwight says, I have a similar belt and wear it most all of the time with the same result. IMO a good practice to follow when using any dye OR finish --- "moderation in everything" Mike

Edited November 16, 2013 by katsass

[vaalpens]

How long did you allow for drying? 24 hours is not unreasonable. Also, bear in mind that Fiebings dyes are like fruit juice: they need to be diluted to taste with alcohol. For saddle tan I go about 50-50.

Incidentely, Fiebings Pro "Oil" dye is not oil based, it just uses a different mix of solvents than their regular spirit dyes.

Matt, thanks for the information about diluting it with alcohol. What kind of alcohol should be used to cut it? This piece actually sat for a few days before I applied the neatsfoot oil.

[Matt S]

Matt, thanks for the information about diluting it with alcohol. What kind of alcohol should be used to cut it? This piece actually sat for a few days before I applied the neatsfoot oil.

Whatever denatured stuff you use to clean brushes when painting, I use methylated since that's the cheapest I can get.

[vaalpens]

Truthfully, . . . the jury is still out on whether an addition of neatsfoot oil is needed after making something of veggie tanned leather: by cutting, forming, sewing, and dying the project.

Some do, . . . some don't, . . . some do some times. Personally, I'm wearing a double layer belt that I have worn now for right at 5 years. It has never seen neatsfoot oil, . . . was dyed with Feibings British tan diluted 50/50 with solvent and finished in Resolene.

It's been worn to cut the grass, dig post holes, put down roof shingles, preach the gospel of Jesus Christ, bake pies, and a host of other things we do in our lives.

It is not cracked, dried out, or falling apart, . . . and is still quite firm though supple as a proper belt should be.

The addition of neatsfoot oil is in my opinion over rated by those selling it, . . . and mostly over done by those using it. Lobo is a contributor here, . . . and his technique is the only one I use, . . . when I use it at all, . . . which is a quick once over on the hair side only, . . . after dying and before final finishing.

May God bless,

Dwight

Dwight, Thanks again for the advise. Interesting that the leather would hold up after all this time. I probably prefer to put some oil back, so I just need to make sure to keep it to a minimum especially when I use the oil dye. What solvent do you use to cut the Fiebings oil dye?

[vaalpens]

Basically what Dwight says, I have a similar belt and wear it most all of the time with the same result. IMO a good practice to follow when using any dye OR finish --- "moderation in everything" Mike

Mike, thanks for the moderation advise. I will definitely apply it to the use of neatsfoot oil. I would probably always apply some oil, but will have to make sure I test it out first to see how much it will darken the piece.

[oltoot]

In addition there are several alternatives available. Lexol Nf is widely available and Weaver has its own product Neatslene Light. And Matt S was right on, FOB dye is not oil based it is just different, not necessarily better. if you were getting what you wanted some other way, go back to it. If you have neatsfoot to use up try having the dyed holster be quite damp when the oil is applied. That will allow light coats to be truly light. And not all neatsfoot is created equal even if it is labeled pure. Caveat Emporer!

[JLSleather]

Always a trade-off somewhere. I've used the fiebings "regular" dyes and the "pro" dyes. Not so very different in the application, but if there was one worth noting it would be the black. The "regular" black requires a good bit of elbow grease and buffing, but buffs to a nice shine, even before applying finish. The oil dye, conversely, requires little bufffing, but will not attain the same shine, even with intense buffing (I admit, I haven't tried a powered buffer).

Yet another 'opinion' on teh neatsfoot - yep, I use it. Only on the GRAIN side (never the flesh side) and I like the result I get. Dwight does the flesh side, and likes the result he gets. So, go figger...

[vaalpens]

In addition there are several alternatives available. Lexol Nf is widely available and Weaver has its own product Neatslene Light. And Matt S was right on, FOB dye is not oil based it is just different, not necessarily better. if you were getting what you wanted some other way, go back to it. If you have neatsfoot to use up try having the dyed holster be quite damp when the oil is applied. That will allow light coats to be truly light. And not all neatsfoot is created equal even if it is labeled pure. Caveat Emporer!

I think I need to try to have damp leather before I apply the oil to allow light coats. I think with the dry leather I have found that if you apply it lightly then it is blotchy, where the damp leather will maybe help to apply just a light coat and still have an even darkening of the leather. Thanks for the advise!

[vaalpens]

Always a trade-off somewhere. I've used the fiebings "regular" dyes and the "pro" dyes. Not so very different in the application, but if there was one worth noting it would be the black. The "regular" black requires a good bit of elbow grease and buffing, but buffs to a nice shine, even before applying finish. The oil dye, conversely, requires little bufffing, but will not attain the same shine, even with intense buffing (I admit, I haven't tried a powered buffer).

Yet another 'opinion' on teh neatsfoot - yep, I use it. Only on the GRAIN side (never the flesh side) and I like the result I get. Dwight does the flesh side, and likes the result he gets. So, go figger...

The reason why I switched to the oil based dye is because my pieces came out very hard when I used the regular dye. I have read somewhere that the oil based dye will not harden the leather as much so I decide to give it a try. I only put oil on the grain side. Maybe I should just put it on the flesh side if I know it will darken the color on the grain side. Without any dye I use the oil to darken the leather so the grain side is probably the correct side to apply it. If I only want to put some oil back into the leather and don't want to make it any darker, then maybe applying it to the flesh side is the way to go. Just another way for me to try out. Thanks for mentioning both, I never thought of only applying it to the flesh side.

[Dwight]

Yet another 'opinion' on teh neatsfoot - yep, I use it. Only on the GRAIN side (never the flesh side) and I like the result I get. Dwight does the flesh side, and likes the result he gets. So, go figger...

Uhhh, . . . that's some kind of misunderstanding, . . . when Dwight uses neatsfoot oil on a project, . . . the first thing is he determines that something in the process may have displaced the original oil, . . . OR, . . . the leather seems dryer than usual.

He then uses a small brush, . . . and very lightly adds a coat of oil to the HAIR side of the leather.

May God bless,

Dwight

[JLSleather]

Got it .... two votes for grain side.

[vaalpens]

Uhhh, . . . that's some kind of misunderstanding, . . . when Dwight uses neatsfoot oil on a project, . . . the first thing is he determines that something in the process may have displaced the original oil, . . . OR, . . . the leather seems dryer than usual.

He then uses a small brush, . . . and very lightly adds a coat of oil to the HAIR side of the leather.

May God bless,

Dwight

Dwight, thanks for clearing it up. I'm not sure when the leather seems dryer than normal since it always seems dry to me. I did test a few more pieces and on one piece just applied a very light coat. The result seemed uneven a first, but after i left it for a a while the oil evened out and the end result was not as dark as the first piece I did. I properly overdid it the first time in an attempt to get an even finish. Moderation and patience is the key.

Got it .... two votes for grain side.

Thanks. Sound like there is a consensus.

[JoyceLee]

So interesting... My question that tags along with this one is whether or not Feibings Pro Oil Dye is appropriate for bracelets and belts... I was told that it bleeds and discolors skin and clothing...

Thanks...

[Dwight]

So interesting... My question that tags along with this one is whether or not Feibings Pro Oil Dye is appropriate for bracelets and belts... I was told that it bleeds and discolors skin and clothing...

Thanks...

Probably told to you by some tree hugger trying to sell you on the water based stuff.

No, . . . it does not bleed if it is properly applied, . . . properly sealed.

The single, one, and only bleeder I ever had was from a bottle of the old Tandy water base stuff. I made myself a shoulder holster for a .380, . . . wore it to a funeral, . . . came home and threw away the tee shirt it bled all over. It was their black dye from 5 or 6 years ago.

May God bless,

Dwight

[JoyceLee]

Thanks Dwight! What would you use to seal it?

The reason I am so hopeful that I can use the Pro Oil Dye is that I have 2 bottles of each color and would hate to chuck it all and buy a new brand...

Someone suggested I just not dye the backs of my projects... I never thought of that...

I appreciate the help..

J.