Who NOT to buy from...

[8thsinner]

I probably shouldn't be sticking my nose in here, but what else is the forum for if not participation.

The way I am seeing things is that sharpshooter simply wanted a show of good faith from Zack about the mix up.

I would be pretty annoyed myself and have a bit of experience on having to wait for other people/companies to get their act together before work could be continued. But I was always the employee not the owner of the company...Several days without being able to stitch whats required is indeed a large drop in cash returns.

It's also fairly clear that sharp is not intending on continuing to do business with zack. Which leaves there little to say really...

But I am glad to see this thread get handled so well by both zack and sharp (thus far) and not turn into a flame war like I have seen on so many other forums.

I hope that both zack and sharp are treated as they deserve to be. Which ever way that is...

Just my thoughts.

[johngalt]

As a long time customer of Zack White's and an avid online/mailorder shopper I have to say that I believe ZW handled the situation with what is customary in the world we live in today. When I have to return a product whether it be because of a defect or because I just didn't like it once I received it I have never been given a refund until the product was returned to the vendor and I guess examined for use or defects. They don't know me from Adam. That is standard practice and to assume one would get money back for a product before it was returned and then go on and on about it is pretty lame in my book. The fact that ZW let sharpshooter pay by COD and not credit card says volumes to me. It was not mentioned if sharpshooter wrote a personal or company check or was paid by money order. That would also speak for itself on trust issues.

Zack White is run by actual human beings and yes they are prone to mistake as we all are, but it sounds to me like they were willing to take care of this in what I call a satisfactory manner. They had already sent out a replacement order for some of the thread? Why didn't you complain about the oil issue when you called about the "rats nest"? If it was as soaked as you said it was it would have been pretty noticable. To me Zack White did what was acceptable and shouldn't have to defend themselves.

[Bassi]

8thsinner makes a good point here. It is good to see a good solid discussion with both sides voicing there views and not resorting to Flame wars. I only wish that it would have been more positive for both sides.

And it is also good to see Zack White here at the boards. It says volumes for them as far as credibility goes to be here to ansewer questions from all the leathercrafters out there. Only next post I hope it to be in a more positive manner

[Sharpshooter]

Tim...

Let's get the story right, without the spin and then I'm done here on this matter.

You replaced two rolls of product that are not usable...... piled off the spool in shipping. The reason they weren't to be returned was YOUR decision that it wasn't worth the price of return shipping.

"We had already given him two free pound rolls of thread..." which ones are they, the defective rolls you don't want or the replacements for the defective rolls I paid for? By the way, just to ensure that you don't feel taken advantage of... it was me who called earlier today to have you send a call tag for the box that arrived this morning. It will come back to you unopened as I don't want anything for free.... It was also me who sent you an e-mail through your site to make you aware of this thread. I have a problem with your business practices but I will not compromise my ethics.

Tell me, why is it a problem for you to send the refund before I send the defective product to you? The ONLY answer is you questioning a customer's integrity.

If the thread wasn't defective, you have your product to sell to someone else and everyone is whole.

If the thread was defective, you could return it to the manufacturer and be credited for the defective product, again you're whole.

The ONLY real concern you would have would be that I could beat you out of the thread by not returning it.

You carry a two million dollar inventory, and buy the thread for significantly less than you sold it to me for, again, that's the way it should be. Your concern was over the wholesale cost of the thread. You placed the value of me as a customer at the wholesale cost of the thread with the huge assumption that I wouldn't have put the spools of defective thread in a box, placed the label I asked you to provide on the box and handed ot to the UPS driver.

I asked to be made whole, I don't carry 2 million dollars in inventory, I struggle to take great care of my customers and try not to worry about how much it costs me to make them happy. I buy supplies as I need them, enough to cover the next few jobs so I don't have inventory dollars tied up any more than necessary. Four spools of thread is about a three week supply. The business model is called "Just in Time" and is quite effective so long as your suppliers hold up their end.

You sitting on my money makes no sense. Since you don't extend me credit, why am I obligated to do so for you? I'm not the one who shipped out a defective product and I'm not the one who stands to profit from the sale... you are.

I'm not a new customer nor am I a featherweight, not that it should matter. I have spent a respectable sum of money with you over the past 18+ months, enough that I would have thought my worth was more than those spools of defective thread.

There won't be a flame war, it's never worth it.

You're not going to send the check with the UPS call tag, to quote you directly... "That's never going to happen" and I take you at your word in spite of the fact that you made it quite obvious both on the phone yesterday and here today that you don't much value mine.

These words keep coming back to me....

"if the product is indeed defective."

"sold 37 rolls of the same thread to other customers with no complaint"

" We had already given him two free pound rolls of thread"

" but we wanted to see for ourselves the oil that was on the thread"

Tim, it's not what you're saying as much as what you aren't saying. It's about deeds, not words. You don't trust me, that's your prerogative, just as it's mine to consider who I'm dealing with. Not only don't you trust me, but you also lack the moral courage to openly tell me so.

You came on here, not to attempt to rectify the situation but to speak your piece. I'm glad you did as our stories pretty much match and your position has remained unchanged, convincing me that I made the right decision.

To paraphrase what Joanna said earlier, I'm doing you a huge favor here, one that you can never repay as we won't be doing business again.

"That's never going to happen" might just as well have been "Go away, I don't want your business." The message was the same and I received it loud and clear.

Enjoy the $88 you charged me for some defective thread, but I admonish you to spend it wisely as it's the last you'll ever see from me.

Maybe the next time a customer calls, you'll consider the value of a customer vs. what he is asking you to do to resolve what he perceives to be your fault. Maybe you'll consider that the wrong answer will cost you and maybe then you'll do the right thing and realize that customers can find whatever you sell elsewhere and by purchasing it from you are demonstrating trust in you.

Maybe you'll make a different decision, or select different words. Regardless, maybe you'll think about the guy you took for $88 and how he wished you happiness and success and wonder why.

I wish you much happiness and success Tim but it's highly likely that we're not going to do business again.

Reid

[Johanna]

This forum is not the place for flame wars.

It sounds to me that the customer was not happy, the retailer tried to make it right, customer still not happy. I give Tim, the owner of Zack White, a lot of credit for coming on here and attempting to resolve this dispute, which never should have been made public like this, but I'm leaving it, because it shows the lengths ZW will go to satisfy their customers.

This thread is now closed. I don't like the spirit it was started in, and I wish members would refrain from running with scissors.

Johanna