Suggestions

[charlescrawford]

I have one of the small 3" Stohlman round knives from Tandy which I love the size but it's hell to keep it sharp enough to cut patterns out for holsters and such. Every 3-6 inches of cutting I have to restrop. One of my friends told me I should look at Greyghost or LR knives but both are well over a $100 and being on disability makes that price is a bit much for my budget. I am selling stuff but it's very hit and miss and not very consistent yet.

I know Zack White tends to have good prices on tools and being from my home state of NC I try to send money there way when I can. They have 2 different Osborne knives one grey handle and a bigger one that has a wooden handle. The guy that guns a mobile knife sharpening business told type of metal is key with round knives. Cheap metal from the Middle East won't hold an edge for this type of work and will have to be ground daily.

He carbon steel is the best which I doubt I can afford right now but something out there has to be in a more affordable price range. Any thoughts? The Osborne knives at Zack White are $50 and $65

[TXAG]

I am on disability too. When there is a tool I need to buy, I usually just save up a little longer and buy the best one I can get instead of buying a cheapie one and having to replace it five times.

[charlescrawford]

I am trying to save for one of the Cobra machines but even that is proving to be a losing battle with a teenage daughter and and soon to be teenage daughter in the house. Makes things interesting

[chiefjason]

I picked up an Osbourne from Springfield and I have been very pleased with it. I would say I have to re strop after cutting 2-3 holsters out. I can cut more when I'm cutting bridle. Strap leather seems to dull it more. Probably the wax in the bridle helping me out.

I rarely have to sharpen it on the stone. And then just on the finest one I have. The strop keeps it running well for me.

As a possible cost saver, try stropping your current knife on 800 or 1000 grit sandpaper before going to the leather strop. It's worth a shot, but I find it actually polishes the edge too much on my Osbourne. It's sharper but actually harder to use. Seems that the small cuts from the stone let it pass through the leather better. I use the sandpaper on my skivers though.

[renegadelizard]

If you are making holsters, you need to call bruce johnson and get one of his old pattern knives he usually has for sell...they typically run in the 100-140 price range, but you will not find better knives...they are all really old knives, and the steel they are made from is top notch, not like the stuff made today...especially the new osborne stuff...i too fought with a new osborne for awhile then bought a pattern knife fro bruce that was made in 1836...i didnt know the meaning of sharp until i got this knife, and it holds an edge forever...20-30 passes on the strop when its dull restores its hair splitting edge...do yourself a favor and buy once and be done..

[charlescrawford]

I picked up an Osbourne from Springfield and I have been very pleased with it. I would say I have to re strop after cutting 2-3 holsters out. I can cut more when I'm cutting bridle. Strap leather seems to dull it more. Probably the wax in the bridle helping me out.

I rarely have to sharpen it on the stone. And then just on the finest one I have. The strop keeps it running well for me.

As a possible cost saver, try stropping your current knife on 800 or 1000 grit sandpaper before going to the leather strop. It's worth a shot, but I find it actually polishes the edge too much on my Osbourne. It's sharper but actually harder to use. Seems that the small cuts from the stone let it pass through the leather better. I use the sandpaper on my skivers though.

[charlescrawford]

Thanks for the sand paper idea. I never thought of that! I got some at autozone to try as burnisher for edges. But didn't really work to my liking still looking in that department...lol

If you are making holsters, you need to call bruce johnson and get one of his old pattern knives he usually has for sell...they typically run in the 100-140 price range, but you will not find better knives...they are all really old knives, and the steel they are made from is top notch, not like the stuff made today...especially the new osborne stuff...i too fought with a new osborne for awhile then bought a pattern knife fro bruce that was made in 1836...i didnt know the meaning of sharp until i got this knife, and it holds an edge forever...20-30 passes on the strop when its dull restores its hair splitting edge...do yourself a favor and buy once and be done..

[charlescrawford]

Is Bruce Johnson on here , on EBay or does he have a website? Where is he out of? I have a friend who get gets some of his from a guy who gets stuff from auctions, estate sales, or saddle shops that have closed. I think he is in KS though.

[TXAG]

He's on here. He has a website too.

[camano ridge]

Bruce Johnson is out of Oakdale CA. here is his web site. I would recomend giving him a cal or email tell him what you are looking for. He is very knowlagble and helpful. http://brucejohnsonleather.com/content/index.php/leather_tools_for_sale/

[charlescrawford]

Bruce Johnson is out of Oakdale CA. here is his web site. I would recomend giving him a cal or email tell him what you are looking for. He is very knowlagble and helpful. http://brucejohnsonl...tools_for_sale/

Thanks Camano Ridge! Will do.

[Shooter McGavin]

I tried a round knife, went back to the exacto.

[supercub]

I tried a round knife, went back to the exacto.

Since I learned to sharpen the round knife, I haven't used any other type. If you get them sharp, they are so much easier to use than razor knives. Once I get a good edge, I strop it everytime I pick it up. Once a week or so, I'll run the edge against a cotton buffing wheel with grey polishing compound. I've used the inexpensive Midas knives and they work okay, but they are a little softer steel and need more frequent sharpening. The osborne knives are a little better steel and I still use them, but I've had a few custom made round and head knives from knifemaker friends who used ATS-34 steel - keeps an edge for a log time!

Use whatever works best for you. I just happen to like the old style cutters where the handle fits the hand.

[charlescrawford]

I will definitely look into the ATS-34! I tried the tried the 1k grit sand paper which helped a little bit. I go to church with a guy who is a metal artist I will see if he has access to this ATS-34 metal. Is it a type of carbon steel I wonder?

[supercub]

I will definitely look into the ATS-34! I tried the tried the 1k grit sand paper which helped a little bit. I go to church with a guy who is a metal artist I will see if he has access to this ATS-34 metal. Is it a type of carbon steel I wonder?

ATS-34 is a stainless alloy that is( or was) a popular material for custom knives. It has some heat treating requirements that cause most home knifemakers to farm out profiled blades to specialized heat treaters. It can be done in a small shop, but it is a little more demanding than regular carbon steel. My experience is that it will hold an edge for a long time IF you can get it sharp and keep it sharp - don't let it get too dull or it will take some effort to get it back to a good edge.

If I have a real dull blade, I usually set it up with a guide like the Lansky sharpening tool. It may take some time and effort to get an edge established, but it is necessary. Once you get the proper angle established, it can be touched up with a cardboard abrasive wheel or a fine grit belt sander at low speed. Most custom knife makers establish the grind line and final sharpen with a belt grinder. A small grinder in 1x30 or 1x42 works well and also serves as an excellent tool to shape the edges of leather projects. If I could have only one power tool for leather work it would be a small belt grinder - even before a sewing machine!

Edited January 21, 2014 by supercub

[charlescrawford]

Supercub - If you had to choose between carbon steel or ATS-34 which would you choose? See I come from a skating background. I figure skated competitively and then taught for 15 years before MS forced early retirement at 35. Skate blade makers switched from Sheffield steel to Carbon Steel a few years ago mainly 440 or higher. The benefit to skaters normal steel blades rust and you had to sharpen them every 30-40 hours of skating time for competitive skaters. Carbon steel didn't rust nearly as easy and skaters got 80-120 hours of skating time between sharpenings. So remembering that that's why I started wondering if it would be possible to make round knives from carbon steel 440 or higher but then can you strop it? You never strop skating blades....lmbo

[supercub]

I don't profess to be an expert in metals chemistry, but I believe that ATS-34 and 440c are both high carbon stainless alloys. I'm not a knifemaker, but I have made many sheaths for a bunch of custom knifemakers. I've learned a little bit from them about what makes a good knife. Both 440c and ATS-34 make excellent knives. Depending on tempering they can be hard to extremely hard ( Rockwell hardness of 60 as I recall for 440c). The harder the blade ( to a point) the longer it will hold an edge - but the harder it will be to sharpen.

Have you ever noticed how a butcher constantly touches up his blade on a steel? They are using extremely sharp carbon steel blades that are relatively soft. They trade off the harder to sharpen hard stainless blades for an easy to sharpen softer carbon steel blade. Now, they are cutting a relatively soft medium ( meat) but they do occaisionally hit a bone. My point is that regular carbon steel will do a good job, albeit with more attention needed to keep it sharp, but the harder stainless alloys will keep an edge longer, but will require more effort to resharpen a dull blade. I happen to like the stainless alloys (either 440c or ATS 34 are good) but there is nothing wrong with a regular carbon steel blade.

[charlescrawford]

Thanks for clarifying sounds like ATS-34 is the way to go then. Also found a guy on eBay that makes custom knives in case the guy from church falls through.

[charlescrawford]

Supercub - Any idea where D2 or J2 csteel falls in the scope of things? Hardness of of 52 - 56? This is greek to me. I asked about the ATS-34 and this is what I got back....

[supercub]

I don't know anything about J2, but D2 has been around for a while. It is a carbon steel that has a good bit of chromium, though is not classified as "stainless". It has been used in a lot of applications as tool steel and cutlery. I believe that at least one manufacturer used it to produce the "Ka-bar" knife. It can be a little tricky to heat treat in a small shop and has a reputation for being brittle if not tempered properly. The commercial makers have the tools and expertise to turn out a quality product - otherwise they couldn't stay in business.

As for Rockwell scale - my understanding is that the bigger the number, the harder the steel. Generally, the harder blades will hold an edge longer, but will be more difficult to sharpen. Depending on the steel, harder can also be more brittle. It may be more prone to chipping or breakage if droped or used as a prying tool.

When it comes to custom knives - use what the maker is comfortable with. He may make a beautiful knife, but if he is unfamiliar with the steel and heat treating, it could turn into an expensive paperweight. If he is experienced with d2, 440c, or ATS34 - any of them will be fine. If he hammers them out of old saw blades, or leaf springs, they might be fine - but maybe not.

[charlescrawford]

I don't know anything about J2, but D2 has been around for a while. It is a carbon steel that has a good bit of chromium, though is not classified as "stainless". It has been used in a lot of applications as tool steel and cutlery. I believe that at least one manufacturer used it to produce the "Ka-bar" knife. It can be a little tricky to heat treat in a small shop and has a reputation for being brittle if not tempered properly. The commercial makers have the tools and expertise to turn out a quality product - otherwise they couldn't stay in business.

As for Rockwell scale - my understanding is that the bigger the number, the harder the steel. Generally, the harder blades will hold an edge longer, but will be more difficult to sharpen. Depending on the steel, harder can also be more brittle. It may be more prone to chipping or breakage if droped or used as a prying tool.

When it comes to custom knives - use what the maker is comfortable with. He may make a beautiful knife, but if he is unfamiliar with the steel and heat treating, it could turn into an expensive paperweight. If he is experienced with d2, 440c, or ATS34 - any of them will be fine. If he hammers them out of old saw blades, or leaf springs, they might be fine - but maybe not.

He is suggesting D2 or J2 steel and the end product will end up being a hardness somewhere in the 52-56 range which I didn't know for the type of knives we use if this was a good hardness and if one of the 2's was more preferable. I was hoping he would have access to ATP but since he has not mentioned that in the response he must not have the equipment or the access to the raw steel. I keep hoping I will hear back from the guy at church ......

[camano ridge]

When you say J2 I believe you are refering to 420 J2. 420 J2 stainless steel is a low-carbon steel that is used to make surgical instruments and other cutting tools like knives and daggers. It has a very high-tensile strength and is resistant to chemicals such as water, nitric acid, petroleum products, steam, vinegar and ammonia, among others. The steel can be hardened to 56 HRC Rockwell. D2 is a tool steel with some stainless characteristics. It can be hardened up to 60-62 RC. I use D2 frequently for making hunting knives. I have not used 420 J2. I think you will find 52 - 56 to be on the soft side. Although it will sharpen easily it will also dull fairly quickly. I think 56 - 58 is a better hardness. If you are looking to have a knfe made instead of buying a quality knife rather then worring about types of steel you are better off to find a knife maker that is familiar with making head or round knives and let them make it out of steel they are familiar with. They will know the proper heat treating methods and hardness range.

Here is a picture of a hunting knife I recently made with D2

Edited January 21, 2014 by camano ridge

[supercub]

. If you are looking to have a knfe made instead of buying a quality knife rather then worring about types of steel you are better off to find a knife maker that is familiar with making head or round knives and let them make it out of steel they are familiar with. They will know the proper heat treating methods and hardness range. [/size][/font][/color]

Here is a picture of a hunting knife I recently made with D2

Exactly! If you choose a custom head or round knife, see if the maker will do a plexiglas or wood profile template so that you can get a feel for how it fits your hand. I use the Osborne knives, but I sure like way a knife with a custom grip feels. When you cut a lot of leather, a knife that is comfortable will be easier to use and you will be less likely to "force" it and end up cutting yourself. I have never cut myself (knock on wood) with a round or head knife, but I sure have with a utility or exacto.

BTW Camano - nice looking blade.

[charlescrawford]

Thanks for all the input and info. The cost breakdown is about the same between buying a round knife and having one made both will run around 50-75 bucks so I was just looking at what my different options were.

[camano ridge]

Charles if you can get a custom made head knife for $50 - 75.00 made by an experienced knife maker that knows heat treating and it includes handle material mouted on the knife go for it. You can buy a ready made one for that price because most of the work is done by machine and automation. There is no way that i could make a custom made knife for that price unless my labor was about $2.00 an hour. THe metal and handle material would be 10 - 15 dollars minumum. If it is being made by stock removal there would be 1 - 2 hours grinding shaping then the heat treating anealing tempering process (depending on the type of metal used can take a couple of days) then after heat treating you have to clean up the blade do any final grinding buffing final bevel about another 2 hours. Then sharpening and honing the edge at least 30 - 60 minutes. Before sharpening you need to mount and shape the handle material about an hour. There is a lot of work there for $50.00.

Edited January 22, 2014 by camano ridge