Members charlescrawford Posted January 21, 2014 Author Members Report Posted January 21, 2014 I don't know anything about J2, but D2 has been around for a while. It is a carbon steel that has a good bit of chromium, though is not classified as "stainless". It has been used in a lot of applications as tool steel and cutlery. I believe that at least one manufacturer used it to produce the "Ka-bar" knife. It can be a little tricky to heat treat in a small shop and has a reputation for being brittle if not tempered properly. The commercial makers have the tools and expertise to turn out a quality product - otherwise they couldn't stay in business. As for Rockwell scale - my understanding is that the bigger the number, the harder the steel. Generally, the harder blades will hold an edge longer, but will be more difficult to sharpen. Depending on the steel, harder can also be more brittle. It may be more prone to chipping or breakage if droped or used as a prying tool. When it comes to custom knives - use what the maker is comfortable with. He may make a beautiful knife, but if he is unfamiliar with the steel and heat treating, it could turn into an expensive paperweight. If he is experienced with d2, 440c, or ATS34 - any of them will be fine. If he hammers them out of old saw blades, or leaf springs, they might be fine - but maybe not. He is suggesting D2 or J2 steel and the end product will end up being a hardness somewhere in the 52-56 range which I didn't know for the type of knives we use if this was a good hardness and if one of the 2's was more preferable. I was hoping he would have access to ATP but since he has not mentioned that in the response he must not have the equipment or the access to the raw steel. I keep hoping I will hear back from the guy at church ...... Quote
Members camano ridge Posted January 21, 2014 Members Report Posted January 21, 2014 (edited) When you say J2 I believe you are refering to 420 J2. 420 J2 stainless steel is a low-carbon steel that is used to make surgical instruments and other cutting tools like knives and daggers. It has a very high-tensile strength and is resistant to chemicals such as water, nitric acid, petroleum products, steam, vinegar and ammonia, among others. The steel can be hardened to 56 HRC Rockwell. D2 is a tool steel with some stainless characteristics. It can be hardened up to 60-62 RC. I use D2 frequently for making hunting knives. I have not used 420 J2. I think you will find 52 - 56 to be on the soft side. Although it will sharpen easily it will also dull fairly quickly. I think 56 - 58 is a better hardness. If you are looking to have a knfe made instead of buying a quality knife rather then worring about types of steel you are better off to find a knife maker that is familiar with making head or round knives and let them make it out of steel they are familiar with. They will know the proper heat treating methods and hardness range. Here is a picture of a hunting knife I recently made with D2 Edited January 21, 2014 by camano ridge Quote https://www.facebook.com/CamanoRidgeCustomLeather?fref=ts
Members supercub Posted January 21, 2014 Members Report Posted January 21, 2014 . If you are looking to have a knfe made instead of buying a quality knife rather then worring about types of steel you are better off to find a knife maker that is familiar with making head or round knives and let them make it out of steel they are familiar with. They will know the proper heat treating methods and hardness range. [/size][/font][/color]Here is a picture of a hunting knife I recently made with D2 Exactly! If you choose a custom head or round knife, see if the maker will do a plexiglas or wood profile template so that you can get a feel for how it fits your hand. I use the Osborne knives, but I sure like way a knife with a custom grip feels. When you cut a lot of leather, a knife that is comfortable will be easier to use and you will be less likely to "force" it and end up cutting yourself. I have never cut myself (knock on wood) with a round or head knife, but I sure have with a utility or exacto. BTW Camano - nice looking blade. Quote
Members charlescrawford Posted January 22, 2014 Author Members Report Posted January 22, 2014 Thanks for all the input and info. The cost breakdown is about the same between buying a round knife and having one made both will run around 50-75 bucks so I was just looking at what my different options were. Quote
Members camano ridge Posted January 22, 2014 Members Report Posted January 22, 2014 (edited) Charles if you can get a custom made head knife for $50 - 75.00 made by an experienced knife maker that knows heat treating and it includes handle material mouted on the knife go for it. You can buy a ready made one for that price because most of the work is done by machine and automation. There is no way that i could make a custom made knife for that price unless my labor was about $2.00 an hour. THe metal and handle material would be 10 - 15 dollars minumum. If it is being made by stock removal there would be 1 - 2 hours grinding shaping then the heat treating anealing tempering process (depending on the type of metal used can take a couple of days) then after heat treating you have to clean up the blade do any final grinding buffing final bevel about another 2 hours. Then sharpening and honing the edge at least 30 - 60 minutes. Before sharpening you need to mount and shape the handle material about an hour. There is a lot of work there for $50.00. Edited January 22, 2014 by camano ridge Quote https://www.facebook.com/CamanoRidgeCustomLeather?fref=ts
Members charlescrawford Posted January 22, 2014 Author Members Report Posted January 22, 2014 Zack white has the Osborne knives for 49 and 65 ( have no blue what the difference is other then price) I originally was looking at hunting knives and this popped up and that's what got me talking to this guy that's a variation of a round knife. Just needs a handle. http://bit.ly/1ebWl66 Quote
Members camano ridge Posted January 22, 2014 Members Report Posted January 22, 2014 Charles, I understand what you are trying to do, basicaly get the best bang for your buck. However I will not tell you not to buy that knife it's not my place. However I will offer some advice and what you do with it is up to you. If you are thinking of buying that skinner and using it as a round knife there are some concerns to consider. First off the material. 1090 is a good knife steel, 4340 not so good. 4340 is carburized bearing steel. It has very little carbon and is hardened by carburizing. Not something that can easily be done in an atmospheric or blower type forge like many knife makers use. I would wonder about the accuracy of the RC rating. I have no verification of this yet however they look like they are possibly Pakastani. The shape of the blade is another consideration. I have a skinner blade in my shop almost the same shape it would not work well as a round knife. the heel of the blade would need to be further out away from the handle inorder to use the point for cutting. To show what I mean here is a picture of a round knife made by Leather Wranglers. You can see it is similar in shape however the point is out away from the handle giving the manuverability you would need. Quote https://www.facebook.com/CamanoRidgeCustomLeather?fref=ts
Members charlescrawford Posted January 22, 2014 Author Members Report Posted January 22, 2014 CamanoRidge Thanks for pointing that out. Sounds like the Osborne knives at Zackwhite are going to be my best options within my budget for right now. The discriptions on their site kind of suck though. Is one better quality? I spend a lot of time on you tube watching saddle makers and holster makers and I have never seen anyone of them ever use a Osborne combo knife is it just me or is that a good way for a guy like me to loose a digit??....lol http://www.zackwhite.com/Osborne-Head-Knife_p_812.html http://www.zackwhite.com/Osborne-Round-Head-Knife_p_811.html This was just on the round knife page. never seen anyone use it online so I am curious does anyone actually use these they look like a good way to end up in the ER! http://www.zackwhite.com/Osborne-Combination-Knife_p_810.html Quote
Members camano ridge Posted January 22, 2014 Members Report Posted January 22, 2014 The Osborne combo is primarily a trim knife. The description says that it can be used to open seams and cut your carpet. I would not buy it as a head knife. As to the two round knives the difference apears to be primarly blade size. I have several round knives, one of them is pretty much the same as the second Osborne it works well. If you buy a new Osborne prepare to sharpen it. As to cutting a digit my recomendation is don't put anything infront of the blade you don't want to cut Quote https://www.facebook.com/CamanoRidgeCustomLeather?fref=ts
Members charlescrawford Posted January 22, 2014 Author Members Report Posted January 22, 2014 I just thought if was odd that one knife came up on a round knife search. From doing some looking online Springfield leather seems to be the place to buy the white sharpening stones (fine grit). I think I saw they had them for 14 or maybe it was 21 bucks Quote
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