Culture: Two nations divided...

[UKRay]

Hey TwinOaks, had some craklin cornbread today with a pot of beans and some porkchops, and If the crick don't rise too much, towards the end of the week My Mamas gonna cook us some chitilins and maws. Down here where I live we boil the chitilins and maws and when they get tender we cut them up and fry them in a spider until just a little crispy, take them up and then fry cornbread fritters in the oil left over from the chitilins. Something to kill for down here in my neck on the woods. In another part of the state they boil the chitilins in a wash pot and then cut them up in pieces about 4 or 5 inches long, then plait the short pieces and deep fry in another wash pot until real crisp. I like our way better, but like their way too. Billy P

As I was saying, we do have some language problems... What are maws? What is a spider (in this context)? What is a wash pot?

Just because I've stopped putting surplus letters into some words doesn't mean I understand American... Okay?

[TwinOaks]

umm Billy is not speaking American English. He's speaking Southernese. Of course, he's speaking the South Carolinian dialect, while I speak Alabamian. Ahem...let me attempt to translate: Maws = hog jowls, spider (in this context) is a pot/large bucket of cooking oil over a propane burner. There's not much to the burner- 3 or more legs and a burner head connected to a regulator and propane tank. Wash tub is a large (usually galvanized steel) tub/bucket holding anywhere from 5 to 50 gallons with handles on the ends. It's called wash tub because depending on the size, they were used to wash clothes, vegtables, or people. Some washtubs might more easily be recognized by you by their other name...trough.

Billy, how'd I do on translatin' your style?

Down here on the coast, we have low country boils.

[UKRay]

Billy P - Hog jowls fried in a bucket or boiled in a trough... Right!

After reading http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chitterlings I could barely hold myself back from jumping on a plane to the Carolinas...

I hardly like to ask about your 'low country boils', TwinOaks, it sounds like a very nasty medical condition. Perhaps you should take yourself off to the vet?

Kate - the saffron is traditional rather than essential. Medieval folk used to like their food to be brightly coloured (okay, colored) and, let's face it, stewed wheat just isn't attractive! see: http://www.history.uk.com/recipes/index.php?archive=6

Stelmackr - cricket is an acquired taste. The Aussies, Kiwis and South Africans have all got to grips with it (far too well in my opinion) and it is only a matter of time before the US realises what it has been missing. A bit like your conversion to proper football (soccer), it is a slow but certain progression. Sumo - who knows? It makes about as much sense to me as American football.

Tashabear - you star! Your frumenty variation is superb; but what is 'hard cider' - I think I want some!

Edited October 15, 2008 by UKRay

[Luke Hatley]

RAY..... TWIN OAK... I WANT TO ADD MY 2CENTS TO IT..

MAWS = PORK STOMACH, YOU ARE RIGHT ON THE WASH TUB... BUT A WASH POT

IS A CAST IORN POT. I HAVE MY GRANDMOTHERS AND IT IS PROBABLY 15 GALLON SIZE

AND ON WASH DAY IT WAS FILLED WITH WATER TO GET HOT TO HAVE A "WASH POT

TO WASH CLOTHES IN". THIS WAS DONE OUTSIDE ON AN OPEN FIRE.

THE SPIDER , IS A FRYING PAN WITH LEGS MOUNTED ON TO IT.

17 TH & 18 TH CENTURY COOKING WAS DONE IN FIRE PLACES AND TO DO ANY FRYING

THEY HAD TO ELEVATE THE SKILLET ABOVE THE FIRE.

*RAY WHEN YOU MAKE IT TO THE MID-SOUTH I PROMIS YOU ALL THE SOUL FOOD

THAT YOU CAN EAT. ALSO THE BAR - B-Q NECKBONES ARE A TASTE TREAT.

Edited October 15, 2008 by Luke Hatley

[Luke Hatley]

BEEN THERE AND DONE THAT..... ATE THAT FOOD AND DONT WANT NONE NO MORE.

I LOVE GRITS, YOU'LL HAVE TO BEAT ME TO MAKE ME EAT OAT MEAL AND I STILL WANT EAT THAT STUFF

Edited October 15, 2008 by Luke Hatley

[UKRay]

*RAY WHEN YOU MAKE IT TO THE MID-SOUTH I PROMIS YOU ALL THE SOUL FOOD

THAT YOU CAN EAT. ALSO THE BAR - B-Q NECKBONES ARE A TASTE TREAT.

I reckon that will be a trip to remember, Luke. My 'Smokey Mountains fund' is growing with every bit of leather I sell... I just have so much I want to see and do that I don't know where I'll find the time to fit it all in.

[TwinOaks]

Well, I guess there's still some regional differences betwixt us. Ray, a low country boil is a seafood cookout, where EVERYTHING is thrown into a 55 gal drum, and a bonfire is built around it to get it to boil. To serve the food, dump most of the water (using welding or noodling gloves) then up end the drum on a sheet of plywood set on trestles. There's a splash of near boiling water, then just a big pile of boiled food. There's no plates, napkins, or manners. I think it probably evolved from large 'community' soup/stews made by the river folks back in the old days.....check that...the really old days. You know, the '50s.

"...sounds like a medical condition...." And you called ME droll.

[tashabear]

Tashabear - you star! Your frumenty variation is superb; but what is 'hard cider' - I think I want some!

Regular apple cider is cloudy juice from pressed apples -- it's less acidic than apple juice. Hard cider is fermented so it's alcoholic. Apparently we have a long tradition of hard cider here in New England, and it is yummy. Everyone in the US thinks Yankee food is boring, but how can you argue with a regional culture that serves apple pie for breakfast? My favorite meal ever, though, is my mom's boiled dinner: smoked shoulder of ham boiled in a big pot with cabbage, baby onions, potatoes, and carrots. (I think my husband would find it perfect if we tossed a turnip in there, too.) Everything takes on the flavor of the ham and it's just delicious. And then for dessert we have blueberry grunt, which is dumplings cooked in blueberry sauce.

...I just made myself drool.

Edited October 15, 2008 by tashabear

[UKRay]

Well, I guess there's still some regional differences betwixt us. Ray, a low country boil is a seafood cookout, where EVERYTHING is thrown into a 55 gal drum, and a bonfire is built around it to get it to boil. To serve the food, dump most of the water (using welding or noodling gloves) then up end the drum on a sheet of plywood set on trestles. There's a splash of near boiling water, then just a big pile of boiled food. There's no plates, napkins, or manners. I think it probably evolved from large 'community' soup/stews made by the river folks back in the old days.....check that...the really old days. You know, the '50s.

Oh My! And is this a seasonal thing Mike? Do I need to re-arrange my trip dates? BTW: I'll ignore the suggestion that anything from the 50s is really old...

There was a programme (program) on British TV about noodling recently - is that for real? Catfish? Underwater... but I'm fairly sure those guys didn't wear gloves...

I just picked up on this seemingly random comment by Jordan in another thread that seems to fit well right here: http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?s...5223&st=100 - How would you cook a bucketmouth and what does it taste like?

Luke: I'll need to find a spider to take home... we definitely don't have them over here!

Tashabear: Apple pie for breakfast... Blueberry dumplings... Am I starting this trip at the wrong end of the country? You'll doubtless be entertained (and maybe a little envious) to know that I will be eating a boiled ham dinner tonight.

Explanation needed: the word Yankee seems to be used in a number of ways, both in a positive sense and in a pejorative sense - I need to understand this better. If a person from the south says 'Yankee' they seem to invest a certain 'something' into it. If person from the north says 'Yankee' they seem to be intensely proud of it.

Also, I really enjoy watching Steve and Norm build houses on TV and am fascinated by Norm working in the 'New Yankee Workshop' but have never worked out why it is called that. Is it a new workshop or is New Yankee one of those things that 'you have to be there' to understand?

Have any of you tried black pudding?

Edited October 15, 2008 by UKRay

[tashabear]

As far as I'm concerned, being that I was born and raised in Massachusetts, a Yankee is anyone who is from Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Massachusetts, Connecticut, or Rhode Island. (Unless you're a member of that baseball team from New York, in which case you suck. )

To a Southerner, it's anyone from north of the Mason-Dixon line. To someone from outside the US, it's someone from the US. Southerners tend to invest the word with the certain special "something" because of the Civil War. Personally, I'm proud to be a Yankee, because my family settled here as colonists before the Revolution, on both sides (though my mom's family was in Georgia and then Canada, because they were Loyalists).

Norm Abram's show is called the New Yankee Workshop because he demonstrates techniques using power tools to create traditional New England furniture styles, whereas they traditionally would be made using hand tools. Apparently there is some controversy over that, which is ironic, considering that the circular saw was invented in 1813 by a Shaker woman from my hometown of Harvard, Massachusetts, named Tabitha Babbitt. There's a Babbitt Lane in Harvard to this very day.

I haven't even started about the joys of fresh clam chowder or Maine lobster taken off the boat that very morning. You could always fly in to Logan and start there!

[Jordan]

Filet um, dip um in beer batter, and fry um up.LOL I think yankee in norms' case would be a reference to his new england area upbringing. Damn Yankee's is a great movie especially the part where what lola wants lola gets! Of course you would need to enjoy old musicals.

[rdb]

tashabear, now we're talkin' good food. I'm in the Carolinas now, but you can't take the Boston out of the boy.

Apple Pie for breakfast woohoo!

Ray, you haven't lived until you've been to a Clambake/Lobster feast on the Dunes of Cape Cod. Steamers with Lobster cooked over hot stones, and buried in the sand.

Now Yankees are kind of regimented, in that we eat certain things regularly. First, and foremost is Saturday night's Beans and Hotdogs (Sidenote: we call it supper, not dinner). B&M beans and Brownbread. There's not a lot of us eating the brownbread nowadays, but it's a sign you're from Massachusetts, for sure.

Then, there's "Prince Spaghetti Day". Pasta night is Wednesday. Sometimes, it was "American Chop Suey"

Sunday, is traditionally the boiled Dinner like tashabear relates....don't forget the boiled baby onions in butter and the whole cranberries sauce, and of course, three baked pies to choose for dessert; Apple, Blueberry, and Mince

But here' where the arguing starts....Barbecue. Down here, they simply call it "Cue". Throughout the South there are various Regional concotions of sauce that people will go to war over defending. You got your Memphis style, Vinegar base, Mustard base, etc. Here in NC there are three versions that can erupt into civil war over.

Now that's all fine and good for the folks down here, but when I break out my Yankee Tomato based sweet barbecue ribs, there's not a lot of them that doesn't just shut up, and keep eating. Not many people realize that Massachusetts was truly an Aqua/Agri culture, with many farmers, and fisherman. Barbecue chicken right from the roost smothered in sauce, and cooked over hardwood slowly in our cinder block firepits...hmmmm

I'm hungry now

[UKRay]

Ray, you haven't lived until you've been to a Clambake/Lobster feast on the Dunes of Cape Cod. Steamers with Lobster cooked over hot stones, and buried in the sand.

RDB, That sounds truly amazing... I'm on my way; but not 'till I've finished the pile of work that is sitting on my groaning desk. It should only take about 6 months...

I'm interested to know what 'B&M beans' might be - is that a brand or a variety? We tend to get good 'ole Heinz or Cross & Blackwell over here.

Tell me more about Brownbread - is it what it sounds like, i.e. brown bread or is this yet another regional delicacy I have to add to my list?

A 'three pie' supper sounds to die for... in fact I would probably settle for just the pies!

Funny you should mention sauces - We tend just to have brown sauce and red sauce over here. Brown is a piquant fruit sauce and red is the ketchup you are accustomed to. There are a number of specialist delicatessens that stock sauces in bottles but I can't say I am too impressed.

Do you all make your own sauces for barbecues? Anyone feel like sharing a good 'cue' recipe with a poor sauce-deprived Brit?

Forgive me for asking what is obvious to you, but when you have a barbecue how does it go? What is the form? What is it cooked on? How is it served? What comes with it? Who cooks? Is this more a beer or wine occasion? It is very hard to ask more without knowing what the questions ought to be... We don't really have a barbecue culture in the UK - although I know it is starting to happen. I think it has something to do with the weather over here...

I need to ask about ranch dressing. We don't have this in the UK but I noticed on my various trips to your fair land that good ranch dressing is always available wherever you eat - east to west - except perhaps in McDonalds, and even they have a variation of it. What is it with ranch? I have worked in the UK with a number of guys from the US and they have all expressed absolute amazement when they weren't given the stuff with their salad.

Talking of salads, we are getting a lot better in the UK these days but you may not recognise the Caesar Salad over here... we won't go into details, just don't get too excited if you see one on a menu. Trust me, it won't be the same as you are used to and it certainly won't be as big...

Jordan, I'm assuming from your cooking and serving suggestion you come from the south....

[rdb]

This is B&M ( Glass jar beans and the brown bread are really the only important things:

http://www.bgfoods.com/bm/bm_products.asp

Brown Bread smothered in butter..gee what y'all are missing....wicked pissah

I'm staying out of the "Cue fued...trust me, it'll happen

[Hilly]

Talking of Jeeves and Wooster, I have just watched a brand new, hour long BBC TV program with Stephen Fry touring the top right hand corner of America (New England and all that entails) and talking to people about what makes their part of the US different from the rest. The answers were fascinating and intriguing. He is heading for the 'deep south' next week - I won't be missing that one!

Thanks for the info on grits, TwinOaks. I'm not sure I'm much wiser as we tend to just see sweetcorn over here and that comes in tins. I'm really looking forward to visiting the south next year and sampling all your delicacies. I'm told chitterlings are something to look out for...

Don't bother trying grits. It's like eating grainy wallpaper paste.

[tashabear]

Tell me more about Brownbread - is it what it sounds like, i.e. brown bread or is this yet another regional delicacy I have to add to my list?

The brown bread that served with beans is a steamed bread, and you can actually buy it in a can! If you want to try making your own, though, here's a recipe: http://www.epicurious.com/recipes/food/vie...WN-BREAD-104112

Ham and bean suppers are a traditional New England fundraiser, typically put on by fire departments, historical societies, and churches. Ham, baked beans, potato salad and dessert -- yum! My dad was a volunteer firefighter, and my family worked on these suppers for years; Dad's specialty was making the beans. Once there was a story on the news about a Boston restaurant called Durgin Park, and it was a source of wonderment for the reporter that they made 100 pounds of baked beans at a time. Dad just scoffed -- he'd make 500 pounds of beans at a time for the supper.

Of course, now he can't make a small enough amount of beans for a family dinner...

As for ranch dressing? It's just cool and creamy and tasty.

[Jordan]

If Southern California counts as the south (which I think is considered blasphemy by true southerners ). Living in Utah now, no real food traditions, (besides jello something called mormon potatoes and some abomination called fry sauce), that I can tell other than everyone eats at restaurants. Largemouth bass has always been my favorite fish to catch and eat.

[whinewine]

There's also a North Carolina delicacy, boiled peanuts. Strange, interesting...pretty blah, but strange, interesting... they're sold along the roadsides in NC.

As far as wash tubs, in western PA, lots of people pronounce them "WARSH tubs" ... fer usin' when youn'z (pronounced with one syllable: younz, NOT 2 syllables:you unz) gotta warsh the clothes, and youn'z better warsh up after youn'z guyz redd up yer rooms (pronounced with a long 'o', as in 'boom! goes the thunder', unlike many midwesterners who say it with a short 'o'- like the sound a car makes revving its engine: vrum, vrum.- as in 'fall down & go boom'.).

Eastern PA (& other places, probably,) say 'youse'.

"Youse" ain't gramatically correct.

Edited October 15, 2008 by whinewine

[UKRay]

If Southern California counts as the south (which I think is considered blasphemy by true southerners ). Living in Utah now, no real food traditions, (besides jello something called mormon potatoes and some abomination called fry sauce), that I can tell other than everyone eats at restaurants. Largemouth bass has always been my favorite fish to catch and eat.

I was only teasin' ya Jordan! I checked out your location on Google Earth - that lake just down the road from you looks like a great (big) spot to go fishing! I'll save the fishing stuff for a more suitable occasion but as a keen fisherman, obviously I'd like to know more.

Two big surprises today - bread in a tin and beans in a jar. I have not seen either of those things before. I was also amazed to find 14 different varieties of baked beans from the same company. Astounding! - and you guys regularly eat lots of beans with brown bread eh? I think I saw a film about that called Blazing Saddles...

No, no, no, Hilly, don't spoil it for me. I've wanted to try grits since I saw my first western film... it may be like wallpaper paste but I've got to find out for myself. I might like it!

Boiled peanuts don't imediately grab me as party food, Whinewine, but I'm keen to give 'em a try if you recommend 'em . Do they come salted or plain? Sadly that language thing cut in about here: "...after youn'z guyz redd up yer rooms..." Sorry, you lost me - "redd up yer rooms"? wassat?

A bit of British culture you might find amusing is that cricket is the only game in existence (as far as I have been able to find out) that has meal breaks written into the rules. It is worth noting that a good village cricket tea is a joy to behold and a delight to eat. Plates stacked high with cucumber, egg and cress and tomato sandwiches. Huge steaming pots of tea, homemade cakes and the occasional fruit scone with jam and cream as a treat. The sound of studded cricket boots on the wooden floor of a cricket pavilion and the murmer of gentle conversation and polite applause is something that will stay with you for ever...

Rugby on the other hand is a little less genteel. After the match all the players share a huge bath full of dirty water and sometimes several teams will use the same water (I know, it is hard to believe) :soapbox: . All kinds of pranks are played with soap and hot water (you really don't want to know, okay?) and, having sung loudly and shared all the mud they brought in from the field evenly between them, the players head for the bar.

Many clubs provide a pie and beans or pasty and beans style meal that oozes carbohydrate in a vain attempt to pre-empt and absorb the intake of beer that invariably follows. Drinking games abound including several that require participants to sing loudly and drink a pint of beer very quickly and then put the empty glass upside down on their head. After several of these games the players hand/eye/leg co-ordination often goes badly wrong... 'nuff said.

Field hockey is a game that makes me shudder. It is like rugby but everyone is armed with a hooked stick and metal studded boots. Very dangerous and not to be played by gentlefolk. LOL

Actually, British games all deserve more mention than they get just because they are so quirky. Sure, cricket can be boring but it gives you a chance to read the paper, snooze in the sun (you should always use a proper deckchair for this), do a crossword puzzle - anything but watch the game. IMHO, the best way to appreciate cricket is on the radio whilst you are fishing - the commentators are hilarious!

Now, about that barbecue sauce...

Edited October 15, 2008 by UKRay

[whinewine]

Ray: 'redd up' is a regional coloquialism for 'clean up'; 'warsh' is wash, 'youn'z' & the gramatically incorrect 'youse' are on a par with 'y'all'.

Boiled peanuts are mushy & I can't remember for the life of me whether or not the peanuts are boiled in the shell & you eat them, shell & all which by this time is as mushy as the peanut itself (I do think so)- it's been years since I ate them & I only ate them twice (which was really enough). The liquid by this time is also mushy & thick.

[Jordan]

No fish in the great salt lake, it is about 8-9 times saltier than the ocean. There is a huge market for brine shrimp they harvest for fish food and such. Also buffalo population is pretty large on antelope island. Apparently in the old days the mormons used the island to house the livestock that was tithed to the church. Interesting that there are fresh water springs on the island also.

[tashabear]

I actually don't eat baked beans that often, nor lobster. Tourists like 'em though.

A lot of what I eat and was brought up on are hearty dishes that I don't think would be that out of place in rural England. Considering that my dad's family is from Maine and my mom grew up on a dairy farm in central Nova Scotia, it should be unsurprising that I think a ploughman's lunch sounds delicious and I love Scotch eggs and the pub pies that my butcher makes.

[celticleather]

Cricket - The Rules

You have two sides, one out in the field and one in.

Each man that's in the side that's in, goes out, and when he's out, he comes in and the next man goes in until he's out.

When they are all out the side that's out comes in and the side that's been in goes out and tries to get those coming in out.

Sometimes you get men still in and not out.

When both sides have been in and out including the not-outs, that's the end of the game.

Rugby

A hooligans' game, played by gentlemen.

Football (Soccer)

A gentlemen's game played by hooligans.

Hope that clears everything up!

[tonyc1]

I actually don't eat baked beans that often, nor lobster. Tourists like 'em though.

A lot of what I eat and was brought up on are hearty dishes that I don't think would be that out of place in rural England. Considering that my dad's family is from Maine and my mom grew up on a dairy farm in central Nova Scotia, it should be unsurprising that I think a ploughman's lunch sounds delicious and I love Scotch eggs and the pub pies that my butcher makes.

The "Two Fat Ladies" used to cook some great food. I don't know if their tv show was on in the US or not.

Tony.

[Hilly]

If you ever make it to Wisconsin, make sure and enjoy a "pop". If you don't have the cash for a pop, just grab a drink out of the bubbler. If you get bored we can always play some fifteen two or some sheep's head. Also, central sands area in Wisconsin is always a good place to find yourself a quality spud launcher.