Welt Construction Question

[harley45]

I recently saw a picture of a holster called the Rhodesion (sp) and for some reason I'm kinda enamored with the design. From the pics it looks like it was built with a welt in the front and back of the holster. I'm thinking about trying the design and was wondering what weight leather you folks use for welts, and any other advice you could share on the purpose or theory of welts?

Thanks

Eric

[Dwight]

When I do a Rhodesian, . . . I do not use welts. I lay out the pattern, . . . put on the clip, . . . stiffener (if needed), . . . decorative pieces, . . . etc, . . . then I get the whole thing real good and wet, . . . and fold and mold the holster to the weapon.

The only sewing left to be done is the main seam that goes down the sight channel, . . . along the bottom, . . . and up to meet the trigger guard.

I then hang it up to dry, . . . usually on a string through the channel that is the trigger guard.

When it is dry (minimum 24 hours), . . . I remove the string, . . . insert the weapon, . . . close it back up tight, . . . check for fit, . . . glue the edges, . . . sand, bevel, and burnish, . . . sew, . . . finish, . . . done.

May God bless,

Dwight

[harley45]

That was how I originally intended to do it but then when I studied the pics I noticed that it dod have the welts and I was trying to figure out if they were necessary or what purpose they served, good to know it can be done without

[Dwight]

The only thing I would put in a welt for (only along the sight track) woudl be for a handgun that had a sharp & wide or tall front sight, . . . just go give it clearance.

With the automatics, . . . the sewing creates a little valley for the sight, . . . no problem for it.

May God bless,

Dwight

[St8LineGunsmith]

the welts are usually put in for the trigger guard to have a pocket to fit in and is intended for holsters that incorperate a strap or thumb break and has no retention on the firearm.

I dont like using welts because it makes the holster more difficult to hand stitch but some holsters have to incorperate a welt in order for the holster to function according to the preference of the user.

[vaalpens]

When I do a Rhodesian, . . . I do not use welts. I lay out the pattern, . . . put on the clip, . . . stiffener (if needed), . . . decorative pieces, . . . etc, . . . then I get the whole thing real good and wet, . . . and fold and mold the holster to the weapon.

The only sewing left to be done is the main seam that goes down the sight channel, . . . along the bottom, . . . and up to meet the trigger guard.

I then hang it up to dry, . . . usually on a string through the channel that is the trigger guard.

When it is dry (minimum 24 hours), . . . I remove the string, . . . insert the weapon, . . . close it back up tight, . . . check for fit, . . . glue the edges, . . . sand, bevel, and burnish, . . . sew, . . . finish, . . . done.

May God bless,

Dwight

Dwight, the Rhodesian holster is also on my to-do list since Rhodesia is close to where I come from. I have already designed the holster, but I just need to decide on the best leather weight to use. What weight do you use when making a Rhodesian? One thing you mentioned in your directions is to ".....put on the clip...". What do you mean by putting on the clip? You also indicate that you mold it, hang it up to dry, and then glue and sew. I normally would glue, sew, dunk, put the gun in and then form/mold. Is there a benefit to molding first and then sewing?

[Dwight]

1. What weight do you use when making a Rhodesian?

2. One thing you mentioned in your directions is to ".....put on the clip...". What do you mean by putting on the clip?

3. You also indicate that you mold it, hang it up to dry, and then glue and sew. I normally would glue, sew, dunk, put the gun in and then form/mold. Is there a benefit to molding first and then sewing?

1. I hate to hedge on the answer, . . . but the weight is dependant on the person, . . . use, . . . weapon, . . . suffice to say that most are in the 6/7 or 7/8 weights. If it is going to be worn outside the belt, . . . I go thicker, . . . an IWB gets thinner leather.

2. I use the Rhodesian style of holster mostly for small automatics, . . . (see pictures), . . . which seldom have belt loops, relying on a metal clip to hold them onto the wearer's clothing or belt.

3. A long time ago in my holster working, . . . I found that reversing the molding / sewing process, . . . would give me a better fit to the weapon. I know there will be those who argue, . . . but it works for me, . . . I know ABSOLUTELY, . . . EXACTLY, . . . where to put the stitch line, . . . and am confident that it will not come loose some day in the forseeable future.

Folks who make the same holster day in and day out have the luxury of a proven, guaranteed pattern, . . . whereas a lot of my work is custom, . . . 1 of 1. That makes the process have to be different.

I hope this helps.

May God bless,

Dwight

[Red Cent]

Comparable to an old Smith & Wesson holster of the 70s.

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee189/redcent69/Leather/SWholster001.jpg

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee189/redcent69/Leather/SWholster002.jpg

[Dwight]

Actually a much different construction technique, . . . mine is wrapped around the trigger guard, . . . the other one is open.

Mine is basically one piece of leather for the holster body, . . . theirs is multiple, . . . plus welts, . . .

Mine is also TIGHT, . . . does not need a phillips head screw to keep the gun in.

But from 30 feet, . . . they probably do look alike.

May God bless,

Dwight

[vaalpens]

1. I hate to hedge on the answer, . . . but the weight is dependant on the person, . . . use, . . . weapon, . . . suffice to say that most are in the 6/7 or 7/8 weights. If it is going to be worn outside the belt, . . . I go thicker, . . . an IWB gets thinner leather.

2. I use the Rhodesian style of holster mostly for small automatics, . . . (see pictures), . . . which seldom have belt loops, relying on a metal clip to hold them onto the wearer's clothing or belt.

3. A long time ago in my holster working, . . . I found that reversing the molding / sewing process, . . . would give me a better fit to the weapon. I know there will be those who argue, . . . but it works for me, . . . I know ABSOLUTELY, . . . EXACTLY, . . . where to put the stitch line, . . . and am confident that it will not come loose some day in the forseeable future.

Folks who make the same holster day in and day out have the luxury of a proven, guaranteed pattern, . . . whereas a lot of my work is custom, . . . 1 of 1. That makes the process have to be different.

I hope this helps.

May God bless,

Dwight

Dwight, thanks again for the insight.

I understand about the weight. I think I was looking for OWB, 1911, Rhodesian holster. It seems that most of the examples I have seen was for a 1911. I will probably go with a 8/9oz weight.

The clip thing. I had some idea you were talking about the clip used to clip the holster onto the belt. Sorry, my ignorance again since I have never seen an example of a Rhodesian holster with a clip.

I can understand how your method will work better, especially since the thickness of the leather is not always the same, especially if you start lining the holster. If I have a holster where it has to be folded around the gun, I would normally have some extra leather on the edges. I will then wet the area where it will fold, fold it and see if my measurements are correct. I will then glue and stitch and then mold.

Mine is all one off holsters also. For the fold around type holsters, I normally like to use some foam sheets to mock it up. That normally gets me very close to the final measurements.

Thanks again for taking the time to respond to my questions.

[Lobo]

In holster construction welted seams can serve a couple of purposes. The welt can add considerably to the strength and rigidity of the finished holster by reinforcing the seamed edge. A welt can allow some extra space to the holster interior that permits moving the stitch-line closer to the handgun profile without requiring the very sharp and abrupt forming that a similar holster without welt might require. Several of my holster designs utilize welts, which I usually cut from 7/8 oz. cowhide, and some designs can benefit from a doubled welt.

I recently made a duty holster for a local police officer (left-handed and having a newly introduced pistol that no holsters are readily available for). Used a holster body constructed of two layers of 5/6 oz. cemented and stitched together and a doubled welt of 7/8 oz. Stitching the seams involved 6 layers of leather, about 1/2" thick. The result was an extremely sturdy and rigid holster (laminating layers of leather seems to have an effect similar to plywood, with multiple layers yielding strength greater than a single layer of equal thickness). I doubt the new owner will ever have to worry about wearing it out.

As for leather weights to be used, I usually make my selections based upon the overall size and weight of the intended handgun, the intended function of the holster, and whether or not the holster will be lined. Speaking very generally, the smaller and lighter handguns can usually be accomodated well with a 6/7 oz. holster body, while medium size & weight handguns may require a 7/8 oz., and the heavier handguns may be better served with 8/9 or heavier. In the shop I always have 5/6, 6/7, 7/8, and 8/9 on hand for various uses (holsters, pouches, belts). Most unlined holsters are made in 7/8 oz., and lined holsters are frequently made of 6/7 oz. with a lining of about 3 oz. weight, which has worked well for most applications.

[Red Cent]

I added the screw many years ago when I removed half of the sight track/welt in the front. Much quicker out of the holster.

[harley45]

Who knew that this question would teach me so much! I just saw the holster and thought it would be kool to try! Thanks Guys

[Dwight]

C'mon, Red Cent, . . . you still can't out draw Matt...................

And if you did, . . . Festus would get ya.........

Not meaning any disrespect or add adverse feelings to anyone, . . . and I do know that sometimes they are probably necessary, . . . but the screw in the bowl washer, . . . with the rubber rings below it, . . . for tension, . . . it just throws the whole picture off for me.

Kinda like watching some cowpoke riding along in his Hoss hat, . . . on a purty lookin' bay, . . . got his vest and his chaps on, . . . six gun at his side, . . . rifle in the scabbard, . . . rope hanging off the saddle, . . . saddlebags in the back, . . . and totin' a turquoise transistor radio with the antenna extended up 48 inches, . . . blaring out some old rock N roll Beachboy's tune.

But that's just me, . . . probably don't have that effect on everyone.

May God bless,

Dwight

[vaalpens]

Comparable to an old Smith & Wesson holster of the 70s.

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee189/redcent69/Leather/SWholster001.jpg

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee189/redcent69/Leather/SWholster002.jpg

Red Cent, What style of holster is that? I have seen a few pictures of the specific style and it look like it is only used for 1911's, and maybe for competition. Also looks like most of them are made by "M Davis". This following holster is similar, but without the welt. Do you know where to get the brass hardware for this style of holster?

Edited June 24, 2014 by vaalpens

[Red Cent]

That style was the cat's meow in the 70s.

The first picture is of a rig was made by Gorge M. Davis (recently deceased) of California for IPSC when it was in its infancy and before new rules came out. Made for me and serial numbered.

The next picture I took a few years ago showing different holsters.

The "Chapman High Ride" made by Bianchi and endorsed by Ray Chapman adhered to the new rules of that day. It is bottom line, second from the left.
Top far right and the next three going left are holsters used today and yesterday. Third one from the right is Kydex and the remaining three are leather. All built for speed and a couple built for bull barreled revolvers.

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee189/redcent69/Leather/Holsters018_zps1eebeccd.jpg

I would say that those are Chicago screws with post binder extensions inside a metal tube. This method is popular in making kydex holsters. Male side of screw , extension which has male and female ends, and then the female side of the chicago screw. Small tube cut for aesthetics. I use the screw combination with black small diameter rubber tubing.

And you are correct about the 1911s. They ruled back in the 70s. What with the birth of the compensator, they needed a lot of hot gas and the 38 Super took the lead.

[harley45]

I love that davis and chapman rigs, I've been buying a lot of older 1911 holsters lately it's kinda an obsession and fun to reverse engineer them,

[vaalpens]

That style was the cat's meow in the 70s.

The first picture is of a rig was made by Gorge M. Davis (recently deceased) of California for IPSC when it was in its infancy and before new rules came out. Made for me and serial numbered.

The next picture I took a few years ago showing different holsters.

The "Chapman High Ride" made by Bianchi and endorsed by Ray Chapman adhered to the new rules of that day. It is bottom line, second from the left.

Top far right and the next three going left are holsters used today and yesterday. Third one from the right is Kydex and the remaining three are leather. All built for speed and a couple built for bull barreled revolvers.

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee189/redcent69/Leather/Holsters018_zps1eebeccd.jpg

I would say that those are Chicago screws with post binder extensions inside a metal tube. This method is popular in making kydex holsters. Male side of screw , extension which has male and female ends, and then the female side of the chicago screw. Small tube cut for aesthetics. I use the screw combination with black small diameter rubber tubing.

And you are correct about the 1911s. They ruled back in the 70s. What with the birth of the compensator, they needed a lot of hot gas and the 38 Super took the lead.

Thanks for sharing your holster pictures and the history that goes with it. I was on a different continent in the 70's and did not even know what a 1911 was. I just love some of these old school holsters. What about the holster second row from the top, all the way to the right? It looks like one of the 70's 1911 type holsters, but then it has an old school look with the strap around it, like the old George Lawrence type holsters. The serialized Davis holster you have is a beauty.

[Red Cent]

That belongs to a cowboy rig made for a pair of Colts. That is many rigs ago:).