What Machine Is This?

[DavidL]

Maybe a Singer 45K is something for you. It is vintage, not very expensive (most of the times - but there are some who wants an arm and a leg for them), it has a large heavy hand wheel, it easily takes the heavy thread and has a quite large bobbing, they are built like tanks and standard parts are still available. You can find them as cylinder bed and flat bed. Cylinder beds are a more expensive than flat beds.

The lady in the video has one too as it seems.

Just an idea...

Thanks for the response.

Singer 45k and singer 201 -4(hand crank) are my two top options.

Does anyone have the average price of 45k or singer 201, they go on sale on ebay for bidding and I don't want to overpay.

I read singer 201 has the best stitch and by many known as the best looking stitch even by todays standard, rolls royce used the machine for production of their interiors, will singer 45k create just a good of a stitch?

With hand cranking does the model/ weight of the machine make a difference in sewing thicker leather? Shouldn't the needle do all the work?

Using a hand cranked machine like the 201 or 45k can a treadle or larger wheel be added afterwards to the hand crank models.

Any other machines that are competitors please do recommend so I can look into them.

[Wizcrafts]

Thanks for the response.

Singer 45k and singer 201 -4(hand crank) are my two top options.

Does anyone have the average price of 45k or singer 201, they go on sale on ebay for bidding and I don't want to overpay.

I read singer 201 has the best stitch and by many known as the best looking stitch even by todays standard, rolls royce used the machine for production of their interiors, will singer 45k create just a good of a stitch?

With hand cranking does the model/ weight of the machine make a difference in sewing thicker leather? Shouldn't the needle do all the work?

Using a hand cranked machine like the 201 or 45k can a treadle or larger wheel be added afterwards to the hand crank models.

Any other machines that are competitors please do recommend so I can look into them.

David;

There is no comparison between an industrial sewing machine (like the 45k series) and a domestic Singer 201. Domestic machines are extremely limited in the thickness and toughness that can be sewn, as well as the allowable sizes of thread they can tension. A 201, which you are looking at on FleaBay, is only good for sewing soft leather, and is limited to using #69 bonded thread. It is built like a tank, but not with sewing leather belts in mind. The tensioning components and hook are too small and thin to use thread heavier than T70 (#69) bonded nylon thread.

You will be very lucky if that machine will penetrate more than 12 ounces of soft leather. Then, you may find that the presser foot can't hold down the leather between stitches, so you'll need to crank down the spring over the foot. This will increase the drag on the leather, resulting in shorter stitches, possibly of varying lengths. Since belt leather is typically rather dense - especially after tooling it - the #110/18 needle will probably get deflected and break.

Have you even taken the time to read the sticky article on the top of this forum, about the type of sewing machine you need to sew leather? If you had, you would not be looking at domestic sewing machines for making leather belts.

Edited July 23, 2014 by Wizcrafts

[Wizcrafts]

My last recommendation, before I permanently exit this topic, is that you take some of your leather samples, finished and ready to be sewn, to an industrial sewing machine dealer. If you cannot find one close to you, since you are in Canada, mail them to Raphael Sewing in Montreal, P.Q. They are the distributors of the Techsew brand of sewing equipment and are permanent advertisers and contributors to this forum. I have no doubt that Ronnie at Techsew (Raphael) will take one look at your work and get back to you with the best, least expensive machine they have that can handle your work, with the stitch lengths and thread sizes you prefer.

Exit, stage left...

[Constabulary]

Thats true - no comparison!

Just to give you and idea of the needles, bobbins and hooks / bobbin cases for the 45K and a domestic machine.

Tape show centimeters - not inches.

The "large stuff" is for a 45K and the "tiny stuff" is what works in a domestic.

As Wiz said - read the pinned post and maybe watch this Video it is helpful. Arthur Porter is also a member here.

Edited July 23, 2014 by Constabulary

[DavidL]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLipfdjWTbg this is the video that I saw that made me consider the 201 - 2. It's sewing what looks like 12 plus ounces of vegtan and can handle more.

On ebay the 45k is listed at 2500 and another at 900, whats the normal price of this machine.

Can you buy a slightly larger needle for the 201 from modern needles to fit tex 270 (.58mm).

[Constabulary]

Honestly - read the pinned thread and watch Arthur Porters video. This is all you need to find a suitable machine.

Both come from experienced leather workers and not from a "fart burner next door" - don´t buy everything you see on youtube or read in ebay auctions. HERE it the place where you get 1st hand information from people who really work with their machines and not only sew a few inches for a youtube video. This probably not what you want to hear but thats how it is!

If you don't trust the people here, buy a 201 and try it - it may work for a while with thin needles and thin thread but I´m sure you will have problems with a 22 size or larger needle. A 201 is something Mummy repairs her skirt with but when Daddy needs a new tool belt or rifle sling I´m sure Daddy will be quite disappointed with the result. Or what do you think why there are these heavy industrial sewing machines out there? They were build for a reason and not to fool people.

BTW - have you noticed how the machine struggles at the beginning and how it pulls up the entire belt? That guy probably restores machines but is not working with them all day or even for a living. It is one thing just to own an "instrument" but playing the instrument it whole different story!

I only can speak for Germany and the 45K can be found for 200€ up to 400€ (not $) when it is a flat bed - cylinder bed may cots 200€ on top. But you´d rather find an Adler 4 or 5 than a Singer 45K over here. Price depends on the condition and what accessories comes with the machine. There is not the one and only price for something.

At the end you have to find the machine and decide if you are willing to pay the price or not. It may be a long journey or just a short trip as the member "Hi Im Joe" had one!

You now have got a lot of good hints & suggestions now go ahead and try something!

And forget this 201 thing - Again - read the thread - watch the video!

[Wizcrafts]

Can you buy a slightly larger needle for the 201 from modern needles to fit tex 270 (.58mm).

You will have to search far and wide to get #20 leather point needles that fit the Singer model 201. Most sewing dealers only stock up to #18 needles for home machines. The thickest thread you can run through a #20 needle, if you can even find one, is T90, or #92 as we call it here.

There ain't no way to run #277 thread through that little old Singer home sewing machine.

This forum is about leather sewing machines. The Singer 201 is NOT what we consider a "leather" sewing machine. It is a home sewing machine that is able to sew some types and "thinnesses" of leather, with very thin thread.

Good luck dude.

[DavidL]

singer 201 is a heavy duty machine and can work on vegtan with a bit of effort so its a compromise. If I have 2 grand to spend I would go down to a store and pick up a good machine but thats not the case.

singer 45k is better than the singer 201 and the 45k is at 1300 dollars canadian after duties and shipping at the least so its not feasible. Any other industrial machine will come close to 800 or over for the cheapest.

So far my list from first choice to last is:

Singer 45k since it can work on thicker leather with ease - 1300 - over my budget

Singer 29k - using a creaser or groover so it can stitch for long lines without straying - 250-400

Singer 201 (gear driven) or 15- 91 with 18 needle - 200-400

[Hi Im Joe]

singer 201 is a heavy duty machine and can work on vegtan with a bit of effort so its a compromise. If I have 2 grand to spend I would go down to a store and pick up a good machine but thats not the case.

singer 45k is better than the singer 201 and the 45k is at 1300 dollars canadian after duties and shipping at the least so its not feasible. Any other industrial machine will come close to 800 or over for the cheapest.

So far my list from first choice to last is:

Singer 45k since it can work on thicker leather with ease - 1300 - over my budget

Singer 29k - using a creaser or groover so it can stitch for long lines without straying - 250-400

Singer 201 (gear driven) or 15- 91 with 18 needle - 200-400

You should listen to Wiz and Constabulary. They know what they are talking about. When researching for my machine I read a ton of threads in this section of the forum. Time and again I found the same three or four people giving awesome and very accurate advice. Wiz, Constabulary, Trox, and Cowboy Bob.

[machinehead]

Joe, you are a quick study. Well done Grasshopper.