Starting Construction On A Barrel Saddle

[rktaylor]

I have started working on a barrel saddle. Based on feedback regarding building a lighter saddle, I decided to go with a skirt rigging. Any comments on the pattern? I put some dimensions on the pattern. These may appear skewed since the poster board is not pulled up tight to the tree all the way around. What about the dimensions? Is there too much or not enough clearance from the tree? I am planning on a 3/4 rigging. I have a #13 ring rigging ordered from Sheridan.

The pink line would be the intended edge of the top skirt for the rigging cover. I am working off the style that Bob Brenner posted in another thread. I hope he doesn't mind me sharing it again here so you don't have to look for it. My plan is to cut the bottom skirt oversized and then match it to the top after it is blocked.

Thanks in advance,

Randy

[CWR]

If weight is a concern I would shorten it at the front to an inch and half. Depending on your rigging rings you could shorten the front bottom down to 3" and still have the latigos dropped down enough to not be under your leg. Just some ideas, hope they help.

CW

[oltoot]

First a too late question; Considering the addage "happy wife, happy life" why not start off with a better tree? Then consider making that top piece into two pieces, separated, not overlapping by about 2 1/2 inches which ends up being the bottom of the 'groove' that is the bottom or center of the seat at rest. Requires coordination of rigging, ground seat, skirt, seat leather to make all meet the objective of a comfortable seat with no break in time required; calls for plugging to make sure that you have long, smooth slopes to minimize wear and DO NOTdome rivits.

[Goldshot Ron]

Randy,

I'd keep the measurements that you are using, because after blocking the skirts you'll see that the front and the back clearance will no longer be 2 inches. Also, I've found that if you make the rear of the pattern straight instead of curved inward, you'll have leather to make adjustments later. Remember, you can always remove leather, but it's hard to add leather where needed. The location of your ring needs to be determined before cutting your skirts. Presently, it looks like your ring would be set further back than 3/4s. What I do is set my poster board under the bars, mark my full rigging location on the poster board and tree, and mark my desired rigging location, place the ring where I want it, then draw the shape of the bottom line of the skirt.

Oltoot lost me with his description of the upper part of the skirt; but, I agree with him that a two piece top is easier than a one piece top. Also, to reduce weight you don't need to use fillers around the rear of the skirts.

I see that you've started your seat risers. What width will your stirrup leathers be? Your front riser looks like it comes down too far. Whose ground seat installation instructions are you using? Since there are many techniques, I don't want step in it, before knowing the plan.

Good luck, Ron

[rktaylor]

Ron,

Let's deal with the last question first. The stirrup leathers are 2 1/2 inches. I thought the same thing about the front riser. My primary references are Harry Adams' book and Jeremiah Watt's DVD. Both of these are based on a Wade tree. This looks more like how JW does it. However after three attempts at a metal seat strainer over the weekend, I may do an all leather seat.

I think you are right about my rigging placement. I don't have my hardware yet, so I was just planning. I figure poster board is cheaper than leather.

Oltoot,

I was confused, then thought I understood, but alas realized I was still confused. My thoughts behind the one piece top it that I can get it to fit right and do all my tooling on it. I can cut the bottom piece larger, then block it. I can cut it to match the top after they are glued. This seems pretty easy to me, but that could be because I don't know what I am getting into. I was going to make the top piece out of 13-15 oz and the skirt out of 10-11 oz. So I thought this way would be fairly strong. Maybe a lot stronger than it needs to be.

CW,

I think I will end up a bit smaller that these. I just wanted to make sure I had enough leather around the bars to block. Once, I get my rigging plates this week, I can really see where I want to place them. I haven't given up on a light weight, but I have tempered my expectations some. The bottom line is I don't think I can leave enough leather out to keep it light and still end up with the saddle I want to build.

I know Stohlman's V3 has the in-skirt rigging, but I only have the first two volumes. I still have a lot of questions, but I will try to ration them a little to ease the load on everyone here and maybe increase the uptake by me. Thanks for all the input and advice. Even if I don't take it, it's still valuable.

Randy

[oltoot]

It is well said that if you find yourself in hole the first thing to do is stop digging but I will take another try anyhow. The way that you have planned things will definitely eliminate some troubling effects from tooling. Another tip. I have started tooling my rigging pieces after gluing up the whole business and have eliminated stretching as a pest with this approach. That has been particularly helpful for basket stamping and definite borders. And the old man who schooled me before I got to be the old man in the equation settled that one for all for me when he asked "if you make your ground seat to accommodate 2 1/2 stirrup leathers you'd better put a sign on it somewhere to the effect 2 1/2 forever. Somebody down the road might have a perfectly good reason to want 3" leathers and you need to warn them that that 1/2" will be very hard fought!" So i put 2 1/2 leathers on all my saddles including the ones that I and family members have used and I make my stirrup slots to accommodate 3" leathers. Now back to the 'hole'! I'll start with a clearly stated objective and that would be for the finished product to have a comfortable seat as close to that pocket between a horse's rib cage and shoulder muscle. Note that on a bareback horse it is nearly impossible to sit anywhere else. And as close as possible have this lowest part, the sweet spot, or any of its pet names be straight above where the stirrups will naturally hang when the pressure is off. A test to impose on any saddle would be, If I relax and bear a lot of the 'bounce' between the balls of my feet and my upper leg where do I end up?" If just right isn't the answer some things need changing? For our purpose we'll find out what takes miles and what can be built in from the start. The analysis starts with the tree bars and their points of attachment to the cantle. Next comes the rawhide cover, close fitting leaving that joint and others a little 'extreme' and pass it on to the the ground seatmaking a point to be definitely dealt with. I must confess up front that I'm not a fan of the all leather ground seat and use 22 ga galvinized for my strainers and have had no negative feedback. So, the tin doesn't really get much attention in the sweet spot, but it does allow that to persist as pieces are added. First comes the large cover which will begin the process of getting the sweet spot definitely a part of the design. In all cases this one should go beyond the sweet spot a little and up the cantle. This piece and the next, I put on wet with contact cement flesh side up I have skived the edges that will be called on to join seamlessly into the tree and left any other skiving to come where the piece needs it, pushing them tight into the various places that I will want to soften an abrupt curve and end up with all the sharp corners covered with a layer of soft, even a bit spongy leather. Then with the piece wet I skive it to shape with Tandy skivers and injector razor blades, in some cases, it looks like I've skived the whole thing away except for the front end and that's the way it ends, by design. It gets set under a fan to speed the process along. I would hate to try to accomplish this with smaller, feather edged pieces; next comes the middle piece with it's job is to try to set the stage for the final it will remain full thickness in the middle and in the area of the hand hole. When this piece is skived and dried, the sweet spot should be apparent with a few unwanted angles or corners still not yet softened. In some cases, you may require an extra piece in front. The top ground seat piece I put on wet and stretch it with lasting pincers across front part of the seat. For this piece I use a non-sagging wood glue so that when I get the top piece in place I can be sure that it will be thoroughly stuck. The cantle filling portion of the top piece is folded forward, out of the way until you get the glue rubbed back and you have a line, glued and unglued. You then put that cantle cover in place with contact cement, bouncing liberally as you go so that it is what you need it to be: definition of the seat. You should have the sweet spot but maybe some bumps or lumps that you don't what, wait till later. This gets put under the fan and must get bone dry and the glue cured. Now wet it thoroughly again. You shouldn't disturb that connection layer but you have the entire seat before you and you wield the power to make it great. Skive, skive, skive until you get it right. The place where it drops off the bars should be the low point, then build a definite but subtle groove from the sweet spot down. Behind the handhole, behind the stirrup leather slot there are some definite needs for material to equal a certain thickness. It helps me to stick a hole with an awl up where these places will be and when it's done more time under the fan. Then you can trim the top piece around the bars and nail it down along the edges of the bars and at the bottom end of stirrup leather slots which you could have cut while it was still wet. save the plugs for a bit. Now, you will see that sweet groove as it leaves the tree and design your rigging pieces to enhance that feature. And when fitting the seat leather it should contribute to the desired effect. A seat 'pre broken in' and there for all to see And most sadly, soon forget. But if it isn't there at all levels, that they will remember and broadcast. And rigging pieces don't need to be particularly strong if you've placed and secured the rigging plates to receive pressure from the right spot at what amounts to a nearly straight pull. BTW I put a 22 ga flap around the rigging plates and fold it up in place, putting the plugs inside the flap and then drill a couple of holes and set a #8 rivit. I have made thick as the plate and its flap and when I've finished sewing the sheepskin I'll set a couple of #8's at the outside edge of the leather bars that are in there so rigging is going to be secure.

Edited August 11, 2014 by oltoot

[rktaylor]

Oltoot,

I don't believe I followed your instructions real close, but I skived my arms off, had the little lady sit on it, and skived some more. I think I have a pretty good ground seat now. I am drawing my stamping design, then need to practice some. After that I will put the cantle back on and then on to the fork cover. Thanks for the input.

Randy